I'm surprised nobody else has noted here what I saw last week in (I
think) the Evening Standard: that TfL are about to tell passengers at
Holborn not to walk up the escalators. They claim that the
passenger-carrying capacity is greater when people stand on both left
and right. There was no mention of a penalty for those trying to walk
up the left hand side, but as we all know, it only takes one person to
block that side by standing on it for the whole system to degrade to
standing on both sides.

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any measurements?

A much more productive move, in my opinion, would be to run their
escalators a bit faster: those in Moscow, Kiev, and other former soviet
cities, go about 50% faster in my experience. It comes as a slight
surprise to the visitor, but people seem to cope.

--
Clive Page

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 10:13:26 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

I'm surprised nobody else has noted here what I saw last week in (I
think) the Evening Standard: that TfL are about to tell passengers at
Holborn not to walk up the escalators. They claim that the
passenger-carrying capacity is greater when people stand on both left
and right. There was no mention of a penalty for those trying to walk
up the left hand side, but as we all know, it only takes one person to
block that side by standing on it for the whole system to degrade to
standing on both sides.

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any measurements?

A much more productive move, in my opinion, would be to run their
escalators a bit faster: those in Moscow, Kiev, and other former soviet
cities, go about 50% faster in my experience. It comes as a slight
surprise to the visitor, but people seem to cope.

Or tell people not to stand on the escalators and keep walking :-)

In message , at 10:13:26 on Sun, 29
Nov 2015, Clive Page remarked:
I'm surprised nobody else has noted here what I saw last week in (I
think) the Evening Standard: that TfL are about to tell passengers at
Holborn not to walk up the escalators. They claim that the
passenger-carrying capacity is greater when people stand on both left
and right. There was no mention of a penalty for those trying to walk
up the left hand side, but as we all know, it only takes one person to
block that side by standing on it for the whole system to degrade to
standing on both sides.

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any
measurements?

It would be trivial to measu just stand at the top of one of the
escalators that has for the duration of the experiment people standing
on one side and walking up the other, and count how many people step off
the top on each side in a fixed period of time. A minute would be plenty
long enough.
--
Roland Perry

On Sunday, 29 November 2015 10:13:27 UTC, Clive Page wrote:
I'm surprised nobody else has noted here what I saw last week in (I
think) the Evening Standard: that TfL are about to tell passengers at
Holborn not to walk up the escalators. They claim that the
passenger-carrying capacity is greater when people stand on both left
and right. There was no mention of a penalty for those trying to walk
up the left hand side, but as we all know, it only takes one person to
block that side by standing on it for the whole system to degrade to
standing on both sides.

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any measurements?

A much more productive move, in my opinion, would be to run their
escalators a bit faster: those in Moscow, Kiev, and other former soviet
cities, go about 50% faster in my experience. It comes as a slight
surprise to the visitor, but people seem to cope.

I said this years ago! Stand-on-both-sides escalators carry MUCH more!

On Sunday, 29 November 2015 10:27:42 UTC, Scott wrote:

Or tell people not to stand on the escalators and keep walking :-)

Walking is bad for escalators. It damages them.

In message , at 11:23:17 on
Sun, 29 Nov 2015, remarked:

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any
measurements?

It would be trivial to measu just stand at the top of one of the
escalators that has for the duration of the experiment people standing
on one side and walking up the other, and count how many people step off
the top on each side in a fixed period of time. A minute would be plenty
long enough.

Could the result vary with the demographic of the users and the time
and location.

Of course. I'm going to suggest that the time and location we
concentrate on is "Holborn in the rush hours".

--
Roland Perry

On 2015-11-29, Clive Page wrote:
I'm surprised nobody else has noted here what I saw last week in (I
think) the Evening Standard: that TfL are about to tell passengers at
Holborn not to walk up the escalators.

They have done this on an ad-hoc basis in the past, I can remember it
being done at Victoria when it was very crowded.

They claim that the
passenger-carrying capacity is greater when people stand on both left
and right. There was no mention of a penalty for those trying to walk
up the left hand side, but as we all know, it only takes one person to
block that side by standing on it for the whole system to degrade to
standing on both sides.

Degrade? Not proven.

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any measurements?

I would imagine they have, and they need to to be able to overcome the
inevitable objections to "stand on both sides".

I wouldn't object, I believe the capacity argument, and I always have.
When I first came to London 26 years ago, I was appalled at the convention
of standing on one side only. Think about it. Every time a step arrives
at the end of the escalator, 0 or 1 or 2 people get off. For maximum
capacity, it needs to be 2. On the right-hand side currently, there can
(with minor exceptions) be one person per step. On the left-hand side,
because, as you say, walking needs a bit more inter-person space, there
will never be one person for every step, so full capacity is never
being used.

There is another issue, which I think is equally important. Since
people are supposed to stand only on the right, all those who can't
or won't walk (especially up) end up queuing for the right hand side,
and the queue causes congestion. If they could queue for both sides,
the queue could also be two wide and therefore much shorter.

A much more productive move, in my opinion, would be to run their
escalators a bit faster: those in Moscow, Kiev, and other former soviet
cities, go about 50% faster in my experience. It comes as a slight
surprise to the visitor, but people seem to cope.

True.

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

On 2015-11-29, Scott wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 10:13:26 +0000, Clive Page
wrote:

I'm surprised nobody else has noted here what I saw last week in (I
think) the Evening Standard: that TfL are about to tell passengers at
Holborn not to walk up the escalators. They claim that the
passenger-carrying capacity is greater when people stand on both left
and right. There was no mention of a penalty for those trying to walk
up the left hand side, but as we all know, it only takes one person to
block that side by standing on it for the whole system to degrade to
standing on both sides.

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any measurements?

A much more productive move, in my opinion, would be to run their
escalators a bit faster: those in Moscow, Kiev, and other former soviet
cities, go about 50% faster in my experience. It comes as a slight
surprise to the visitor, but people seem to cope.

Or tell people not to stand on the escalators and keep walking :-)

Actually not funny, considering the number of reasons people are unable
to keep walking, especially up!

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 11:54:31 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:23:17 on
Sun, 29 Nov 2015, remarked:

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any
measurements?

It would be trivial to measu just stand at the top of one of the
escalators that has for the duration of the experiment people standing
on one side and walking up the other, and count how many people step off
the top on each side in a fixed period of time. A minute would be plenty
long enough.

Could the result vary with the demographic of the users and the time
and location.

Of course. I'm going to suggest that the time and location we
concentrate on is "Holborn in the rush hours".

Already done:
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/assets/snippets/workingpaperpdf/2002-11-01GoutamDutta.pdf

From page 28:

Conclusion
It is therefore concluded that:

• Passengers will not stand on both sides of an escalator simply
because they are asked to.

• When passengers do stand on both sides capacity is high but this is
only because the majority of passengers do not treat the left hand
side as a standing side.

• However, except for short periods of time, passengers will not stand
on both sides unless they are persuaded (such as through an
advertising campaign) to treat both sides as standing sides.

• If passengers could be persuaded to treat both sides as standing
sides, capacity would not be so high and, if the assumptions made are
correct, it would only be advantageous for high rise double escalators
and for corner A double escalators.

• To impose such a selective policy would be even more difficult than
persuading passengers to stand on all escalators and the benefit
gained would be minimal.

On Sunday, 29 November 2015 12:59:55 UTC, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2015 11:54:31 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:23:17 on
Sun, 29 Nov 2015, remarked:

I really doubt the capacity arguments: it may be true that you get more
people on the standing side than on the walking side as walking needs a
bit more inter-person space, but on the other hand the number of people
per second is greater. I wonder if they have really done any
measurements?

It would be trivial to measu just stand at the top of one of the
escalators that has for the duration of the experiment people standing
on one side and walking up the other, and count how many people step off
the top on each side in a fixed period of time. A minute would be plenty
long enough.

Could the result vary with the demographic of the users and the time
and location.

Of course. I'm going to suggest that the time and location we
concentrate on is "Holborn in the rush hours".

Already done:
http://www.iimahd.ernet.in/assets/snippets/workingpaperpdf/2002-11-01GoutamDutta.pdf

From page 28:

Conclusion
It is therefore concluded that:

* Passengers will not stand on both sides of an escalator simply
because they are asked to.

* When passengers do stand on both sides capacity is high but this is
only because the majority of passengers do not treat the left hand
side as a standing side.

* However, except for short periods of time, passengers will not stand
on both sides unless they are persuaded (such as through an
advertising campaign) to treat both sides as standing sides.

* If passengers could be persuaded to treat both sides as standing
sides, capacity would not be so high and, if the assumptions made are
correct, it would only be advantageous for high rise double escalators
and for corner A double escalators.

* To impose such a selective policy would be even more difficult than
persuading passengers to stand on all escalators and the benefit
gained would be minimal.

On all they need is a member of staff, preferably a unidexter, to ride up and down clogging the walking side.