On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 05:48:15PM +0100, JNugent wrote:

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

Croydon too.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "topless karaoke murders"

You know you're getting old when you fancy the
teenager's parent and ignore the teenager
-- Paul M in uknot

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 02:07:30AM -0700, solar penguin wrote:
On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?
Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

Apart from the old East London line, isn't the Overground charged as if
it were a National Rail service?

But in any case, vast swathes of Croydon aren't near enough to an
Overground or tram service to be able to sensibly travel exclusively on
TfL services.

--
David Cantrell | Official London Perl Mongers Bad Influence

The voices said it's a good day to clean my weapons

In message , at 11:41:59 on Tue, 14 Jun
2016, tim... remarked:
"We benefit" means the country's gross product benefits (as I said) but we
get a big share of that. Remember that more trade equals more money going
round of which we all get some, even if not as fair shares as many would
like.

And I see you ignored my last comment so I make it again

The idea that we would lose all of that trade if we left the EU is
simply preposterous

As this is Usenet then nothing is ever going to qualify as "all" (unless
it's something like "all of Queen Victoria's children are dead").

Even after trade negotiations with the EU, an exited UK will still have
to manufacture goods to the standards within the EU, without ever having
had a say in what those standards are.

What may dry up quickest (but isn't necessarily a huge sum) is
cross-border trade covered by the successor to the Distance Selling
Directive, without whose safeguards consumers in the EU may be more
reluctant to buy from us.

There's also likely to be a big shakeup of travel ticketing (will CIV
survive?) as the whole low-cost flights thing is a result off EU
deregulation, and the allocation of slots is also an EU thing:

http://researchbriefings.parliament....ummary/SN00488
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 12:44:51
on Tue, 14 Jun 2016, David Cantrell remarked:
But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?
Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

Apart from the old East London line, isn't the Overground charged as if
it were a National Rail service?

No, it has special fares, even lower then underground ones.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 12:44:51 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:

On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 02:07:30AM -0700, solar penguin wrote:
On Monday, 13 June 2016 08:59:16 UTC+1, Recliner wrote:
But I wonder why you cite Croydon, which does have TfL
services, rather than Bromley and Bexley, which don't?
Just to be pedantic: Bromley has TfL London Overground services from
3 stations in the borough.

Apart from the old East London line, isn't the Overground charged as if
it were a National Rail service?

No, TfL sets the fares, and the mayor can freeze them. LO also honours
the Freedom Pass all day, unlike other NR services.


But in any case, vast swathes of Croydon aren't near enough to an
Overground or tram service to be able to sensibly travel exclusively on
TfL services.

Not exclusively, but many Croydon residents benefit from TfL services,
including the trams, buses and Overground.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 12:40:37 +0100, David Cantrell
wrote:

On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 05:48:15PM +0100, JNugent wrote:

For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

Croydon too.

Not if they use buses, trams or LO services. In any case, it's not a
lie: he never promised to freeze anything other than TfL fares. Most
boroughs are served by a mixture of TfL and NR services, and he only
promised to freeze the former.

In message , at 13:23:36 on
Tue, 14 Jun 2016, Recliner remarked:
For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

Croydon too.

Not if they use buses, trams or LO services.

Travelcards and daily caps haven't been frozen, just single tickets.

In any case, it's not a lie: he never promised to freeze anything other
than TfL fares. Most boroughs are served by a mixture of TfL and NR
services, and he only promised to freeze the former.

His manifesto was ambiguous, also saying "Londoners won't pay a penny
more for their travel in 2020 than they do today."

With hindsight he should have been asked to clarify.

Sadly (and mentioning no specifics) the majority of Stay/Leave
propaganda is equally flawed at such a basic level.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 14 Jun 2016 13:38:48 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 13:23:36 on
Tue, 14 Jun 2016, Recliner remarked:
For a Bromley or Bexley commuter (and I would guess also for
Kingston-upon-Thames), "[a] plan to freeze all TfL fares for the next
four years, so you will not pay a penny more in 2020 than you do in
2016" is just a lie.

Croydon too.

Not if they use buses, trams or LO services.

Travelcards and daily caps haven't been frozen, just single tickets.

What about daily bus caps?


In any case, it's not a lie: he never promised to freeze anything other
than TfL fares. Most boroughs are served by a mixture of TfL and NR
services, and he only promised to freeze the former.

His manifesto was ambiguous, also saying "Londoners won't pay a penny
more for their travel in 2020 than they do today."

With hindsight he should have been asked to clarify.

Sadly (and mentioning no specifics) the majority of Stay/Leave
propaganda is equally flawed at such a basic level.

Much more so. Much of it consists of outright lies, not just selective
quotation or careful qualifications.

In message , at 13:49:49 on
Tue, 14 Jun 2016, Recliner remarked:

Travelcards and daily caps haven't been frozen, just single tickets.

What about daily bus caps?

Dunno. They could of course implement staged daily everything caps by
having platform validators at locations with shared gate lines.
--
Roland Perry

David Cantrell writes:

But in any case, vast swathes of Croydon aren't near enough to an
Overground or tram service to be able to sensibly travel exclusively on
TfL services.

But they probably live close enough to a bus route.