"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 15:33:05 on Wed, 15 Jun 2016,
tim... remarked:

There's also likely to be a big shakeup of travel ticketing (will
CIV survive?)

Um, when was the last time anyone (here) bought one of these across a
UK border

Surely almost everyone buys a point-to-point E* ticket.

Plus the UK to StPancras leg, which is often substantially cheaper if
you buy the CIV ticket, especially in the peaks.

I suppose there's the border on the Belfast-Dublin route. Can't
remember what type of ticket I had when I did that

as the whole low-cost flights thing is a result off EU deregulation,
and the allocation of slots is also an EU thing:

Low cost flights are based upon a "modern" business model.

But business models need a regulatory framework within which they
exist. Scrap the framework and there could be trouble ahead.

That framework doesn't rely upon the EU

It relies entirely on the liberation contained in the so-called
"Aviation Packages" - collections of Directives and regulations
commencing in 1983. Google SN00182.pdf for more details.

if it did "Norwegian" couldn't compete (to name but one)

The UK would need whatever deal they've negotiated to fly intra-EU.

There must be standard rules for this otherwise all the other countries
airlines couldn't fly to the EU.

And those standard rules won't be at the same cost as for EU members.

so what is the costs to an airline of flying in EU airspace?

Not the airport fees, but the airspace fees?


Whilst slots at airports might play a role at the margins, they aren't
the difference between them existing, or not

They are at places like Heathrow (and UK to other very busy EU hubs).

I know slots are in demand at LHR, it's why the cheepies don't fly from
there

The "Open Skies" agreement between the EU and USA is what governs the
allocation of slots at Heathrow, and hence the price of transatlantic
fares.

I know all about that thanks very much.

what relevance is it to European flights?

None at all. Sorry to have confused you by trying to discuss two related
issues in the same posting.

No you didn't confuse me

you were attempting to make me look like an ignorant numpty by claiming that
I didn't understand something that AIH was irrelevant to the discussion

tim

In message , at 17:49:44 on Wed, 15 Jun 2016,
tim... remarked:
so what is the costs to an airline of flying in EU airspace?

Not the airport fees, but the airspace fees?

Off-hand I don't know which of the costs would rise, just that overal
they will.

Whilst slots at airports might play a role at the margins, they
aren't the difference between them existing, or not

They are at places like Heathrow (and UK to other very busy EU hubs).

I know slots are in demand at LHR, it's why the cheepies don't fly
from there

The "Open Skies" agreement between the EU and USA is what governs
the allocation of slots at Heathrow, and hence the price of
transatlantic fares.

I know all about that thanks very much.

what relevance is it to European flights?

None at all. Sorry to have confused you by trying to discuss two
related issues in the same posting.

No you didn't confuse me

you were attempting to make me look like an ignorant numpty by claiming
that I didn't understand something that AIH was irrelevant to the
discussion

I was discussing "the whole low-cost flights thing is a result of EU
deregulation, and the allocation of slots is also an EU thing" the slots
being applicable to flights all over the world, so very relevant.
--
Roland Perry

On 15/06/2016 09:04, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at
18:53:24 on Tue, 14 Jun 2016, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
As this is Usenet then nothing is ever going to qualify as "all" (unless
it's something like "all of Queen Victoria's children are dead").

Until the demise of Carl XVI Gustaf, at which point there will be at
least two alive (unless something bad happens in the mean time).

Did they exhume the Queen in 1946 so she could give birth posthumously?

The Duchess of Västergötland will become Queen Victoria (unless her
little brother leads an uprising to claim the inheritance he was denied
by a change in the succession rules when he was few months old), and so
far she has two sprögs. According to Wikipedia, she is the
great-great-great-granddaughter of our Queen Victoria.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

In message , at
19:07:29 on Wed, 15 Jun 2016, Arthur Figgis
remarked:
As this is Usenet then nothing is ever going to qualify as "all" (unless
it's something like "all of Queen Victoria's children are dead").

Until the demise of Carl XVI Gustaf, at which point there will be at
least two alive (unless something bad happens in the mean time).

Did they exhume the Queen in 1946 so she could give birth posthumously?

The Duchess of Västergötland will become Queen Victoria (unless her
little brother leads an uprising to claim the inheritance he was denied
by a change in the succession rules when he was few months old), and so
far she has two sprögs. According to Wikipedia, she is the
great-great-great-granddaughter of our Queen Victoria.

Oh deary me.
--
Roland Perry

In uk.transport.london message N9SdnfG9t98L2f3KnZ2dnUU78TPNnZ2d@brightv
iew.co.uk, Tue, 14 Jun 2016 18:53:24, Arthur Figgis
posted:

On 14/06/2016 12:47, Roland Perry wrote:

As this is Usenet then nothing is ever going to qualify as "all" (unless
it's something like "all of Queen Victoria's children are dead").

Until the demise of Carl XVI Gustaf, at which point there will be at
least two alive (unless something bad happens in the mean time).


There seems to be some error or misunderstanding :-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert,_Prince_Consort#Issue indicates
that the last two surviving issue of Victoria and Albert died during
WWII, one near the beginning and one near the end. I wonder how many
here are old enough to have been able to have met either lady?

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Merlyn Web Site - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:49:44 on Wed, 15 Jun 2016,

I was discussing "the whole low-cost flights thing is a result of EU
deregulation, and the allocation of slots is also an EU thing" the slots
being applicable to flights all over the world, so very relevant.

I don't believe that the allocation of slots at any particular airport has a
damned thing to do with the EU

tim

On Wed, 15 Jun 2016 16:26:05 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:15:37 on Wed, 15 Jun
2016, d remarked:
The amount of pollution from aircraft, both noise and CO2 is
horrendous.

Nanny knows best, eh?

Oh, you don't think its a problem then?

You want the state telling you where and when you can travel?

No, but I want the state to limit a destructive free-for-all. If some vested
interest in roads was campaigning to build a new motorway do you think anyone
would listen? Yet for some reason we're supposed to build a new runway at
Heathrow to benefit whome exactly? Oh thats right, Heathrow Plc. Never mind
the 8 million in London who have already put up with planes flying low overhead
and the pollution.

Incidentaly a few years back I had the misfortune of working in Harlington.
The noise was horrendous when they took off from the north runway and the stink
of jet fuel from the idling engines could be smelt half a mile away if the wind
was blowing in the right direction.

--
Spud

In message , at 08:29:53 on Thu, 16 Jun
2016, d remarked:
You want the state telling you where and when you can travel?

No, but I want the state to limit a destructive free-for-all. If some vested
interest in roads was campaigning to build a new motorway do you think anyone
would listen? Yet for some reason we're supposed to build a new runway at
Heathrow to benefit whome exactly? Oh thats right, Heathrow Plc.

Not just the airport company, but the hundreds of thousands of auxiliary
workers and their employers.
--
Roland Perry

In message , at 08:03:05 on Thu, 16 Jun
2016, tim... remarked:
I was discussing "the whole low-cost flights thing is a result of EU
deregulation, and the allocation of slots is also an EU thing" the
slots being applicable to flights all over the world, so very relevant.

I don't believe that the allocation of slots at any particular airport
has a damned thing to do with the EU

Of course it does. The EU negotiated the Open Skies agreement, not the
UK. Without that, previously only two UK and two US airlines were
allowed UK-USA slots at Heathrow.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:29:53 on Thu, 16 Jun
2016, d remarked:
You want the state telling you where and when you can travel?

No, but I want the state to limit a destructive free-for-all. If some vested
interest in roads was campaigning to build a new motorway do you think anyone
would listen? Yet for some reason we're supposed to build a new runway at
Heathrow to benefit whome exactly? Oh thats right, Heathrow Plc.

Not just the airport company, but the hundreds of thousands of auxiliary
workers and their employers.

Plus the customers (ie, the airlines and their customers). It would never
get through if the only proponent was HAL. What's driving it is all the
businesses that want better connections from Heathrow. But now that BA has
managed to acquire more slots than it can use, it's much less keen on
Heathrow expansion than it used to be.

Incidentally, the decision could be slipped out in the very near future,
just after the referendum. I don't think Cameron and Osborne care about
annoying Boris and Zac any more, and if they win the referendum, they'll
probably announce the airport decision before any cabinet reshuffle. If
they lose, who knows?