Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 21:46:40 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of
575 tonne A380s a few metres above.

You've not seen the highway tunnels with their portals only metres away
from the runways at Schiphol? https://goo.gl/maps/K5NbbmjqqL42

Seen and travelled through them.

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 16:33:49 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
From international arrivals,

When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a
left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then
carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up
being met near #13.

So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again.

No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met,
there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong
direction.

No "need", but the design is such that people get swept along in that
direction with the others. The immediate u-turn is completely
counter-intuitive.

Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern
customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit).

There aren't many second-time users with that good a memory. Especially
if they have three big terminals at Heathrow and two at Gatwick to cope
with - and that's just one country!

Four at Heathrow. Even the smaller T4 is large by the standards of other
airports. But these tips are easier than taking the best routes through
Kings Cross or Green Park LU stations, which you don't have any trouble
finding and remembering.

One problem with Gatwick North is that all the building work means that it
changes between visits, so my shortcut from each visit may no longer be
valid by the next visit.

On 2017-03-26 08:36:53 +0000, Roland Perry said:

No "need", but the design is such that people get swept along in that
direction with the others. The immediate u-turn is completely
counter-intuitive.

It's amazing how much of an effect that has. At some Euston platforms
the best chance of a seat is at the rear of the train as to get back to
it you have to double back from the barrier. Only a coach length, but
it's enough to "hide" it.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 08:56:48 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of
575 tonne A380s a few metres above.

You've not seen the highway tunnels with their portals only metres away
from the runways at Schiphol? https://goo.gl/maps/K5NbbmjqqL42

Seen and travelled through them.

Good. You'll therefore note that much wider and much shallower tunnels
don't collapse under the weight of huge planes.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 08:56:48 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of
575 tonne A380s a few metres above.

You've not seen the highway tunnels with their portals only metres away
from the runways at Schiphol? https://goo.gl/maps/K5NbbmjqqL42

Seen and travelled through them.

Good. You'll therefore note that much wider and much shallower tunnels
don't collapse under the weight of huge planes.

Yes, I do have engineering degrees, and am familiar with the concept of
load-bearing beams. But the greater the span, the deeper the beams.

Incidentally, CDG also has public vehicle and passenger tunnels under
taxiways. And Heathrow has a lot more vehicle and rail tunnels than the
public ones from the M4 and A4 to the central area.

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 08:56:48 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 16:33:49 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
From international arrivals,

When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a
left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then
carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up
being met near #13.

So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again.

No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met,
there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong
direction.

No "need", but the design is such that people get swept along in that
direction with the others. The immediate u-turn is completely
counter-intuitive.

Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern
customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit).

There aren't many second-time users with that good a memory. Especially
if they have three big terminals at Heathrow and two at Gatwick to cope
with - and that's just one country!

Four at Heathrow.

I was only counting the long haul ones.

Even the smaller T4 is large by the standards of other
airports. But these tips are easier than taking the best routes through
Kings Cross or Green Park LU stations, which you don't have any trouble
finding and remembering.

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in effect I
have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes), I've been
using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I followed the
design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my much-discussed
guess at the final configuration, long before they started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

One problem with Gatwick North is that all the building work means that it
changes between visits, so my shortcut from each visit may no longer be
valid by the next visit.

Same effect in whatever LHR T123 is called this week.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 08:56:48 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-septe
mber.org, at 16:33:49 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
From international arrivals,

When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a
left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then
carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up
being met near #13.

So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again.

No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met,
there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong
direction.

No "need", but the design is such that people get swept along in that
direction with the others. The immediate u-turn is completely
counter-intuitive.

Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern
customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit).

There aren't many second-time users with that good a memory. Especially
if they have three big terminals at Heathrow and two at Gatwick to cope
with - and that's just one country!

Four at Heathrow.

I was only counting the long haul ones.

Yes, Heathrow has four long-haul terminals, all of which get A380 services.
Which one did you think wasn't long haul?



Even the smaller T4 is large by the standards of other
airports. But these tips are easier than taking the best routes through
Kings Cross or Green Park LU stations, which you don't have any trouble
finding and remembering.

Not only do I have a brain that happens to work in that way (in effect I
have a "photographic memory" for walking/driving routes), I've been
using the tube for 50yrs. In the case of Kings Cross, I followed the
design and building with a fine tooth comb. Here's my much-discussed
guess at the final configuration, long before they started building:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/kx-composite.jpg

One problem with Gatwick North is that all the building work means that it
changes between visits, so my shortcut from each visit may no longer be
valid by the next visit.

Same effect in whatever LHR T123 is called this week.

The current building work there doesn't have much effect on passengers:
they're continuing to demolish what's left of T1. In time, T2 will be
extended into that area, but passengers won't see the changes for many
years.

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:32:59 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 08:56:48 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of
575 tonne A380s a few metres above.

You've not seen the highway tunnels with their portals only metres away
from the runways at Schiphol? https://goo.gl/maps/K5NbbmjqqL42

Seen and travelled through them.

Good. You'll therefore note that much wider and much shallower tunnels
don't collapse under the weight of huge planes.

Yes, I do have engineering degrees,

You don't need an engineering degree to see there isn't a Jumbo jet in a
big hole over the tunnel!

and am familiar with the concept of
load-bearing beams. But the greater the span, the deeper the beams.

Incidentally, CDG also has public vehicle and passenger tunnels under
taxiways.

So does AMS also have those. The one above is under a runway.

And Heathrow has a lot more vehicle and rail tunnels than the
public ones from the M4 and A4 to the central area.

It does, but this subthread is only about the people mover.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 09:57:09 on Sun, 26 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

Yes, Heathrow has four long-haul terminals, all of which get A380 services.
Which one did you think wasn't long haul?

T1, but I see you saying it's no longer in use. (And hence any memory of
the quickest exit route is moot).
--
Roland Perry

On 2017\03\26 09:25, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:31:00 on Sat, 25 Mar
2017, d remarked:

I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins?

The newish system at CDG is pretty long.

Perhaps a working definition might be "is more than half serving outside
of the airport perimeter fence"?

How about "Does a single facility account for the majority of passengers
at all of the stations except one?"