On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 12:51:41 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:20:49 on
Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked:

Maybe you are over-conditioned to these unnecessary route-marches.

Well, I know it's significantly better than any other large terminal I
use, and I've used a lot, including Singapore, Hong Kong, Beijing,
etc. I'm curious why you hate it so much, given that you've hardly any
experience of it?

The excessive walk the first time I landed there.

When I've met people off flights, it's a shame the exit from customs is
the other end of the building to the train stations.

It would indeed be so if it were true, but it's not. Are you sure
you've even been to T5? Your memories of it are so far divorced from
reality that I wonder if you only imagine having been there. Or
perhaps you had a bad lag on your visit to it, long ago, and had
trouble walking?

Here's the reality:

From international arrivals, it's a short walk to the HEx exit (less
than one sixth of the terminal length), and a slightly longer one to
the Tube (less than a quarter of the terminal length). It's the other
way round from domestic arrivals. The station for the future western
rail link will be directly opposite the customs exit.

Incidentally, what makes the walk longer than it needs to be is the
arrivals 'duty free' (sic) shop that you have to walk through. Without
that, the northern customs exit would be almost directly opposite to
the HEx exit. Of course, apart from the shop's revenue aspect, they
may not have wanted the crowd of meeters and greeters to be clustered
directly in front of, and possibly blocking, the HEx exit.

In all cases, the distances to the railway stations are less than any
of the other Heathrow or Gatwick terminals. By far the worst in LHR is
the T3 link to the central Tube station.

See the last page of
http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/PDF/Maps/Heathrow_T5_Map.pdf

In message , at 14:55:53 on
Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked:

From international arrivals,

When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a
left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then
carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up
being met near #13.

So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again.

it's a short walk to the HEx exit (less than one sixth of the terminal
length), and a slightly longer one to the Tube (less than a quarter of
the terminal length).

Both are in the northern quartile of the terminal.

See the last page of
http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/PDF/Maps/Heathrow_T5_Map.pdf

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:55:53 on
Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner remarked:

From international arrivals,

When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a
left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then
carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up
being met near #13.

So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again.

No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met,
there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong
direction.

Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern
customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit).


it's a short walk to the HEx exit (less than one sixth of the terminal
length), and a slightly longer one to the Tube (less than a quarter of
the terminal length).

Both are in the northern quartile of the terminal.

No, only the Tube entrance is in the northern quartile. The HEx entrance is
about a third of the way along, while the best customs exit is just north
of the centre. That makes the distance between the customs exit and the HEx
entrance very short, though still longer than it needs to be. It'll be even
easier to access the new western rail link station when/if it opens in a
few years time.

One other thing I should have mentioned: HAL stations its HEx ticket touts
in the 'duty-free' shop, going it another reason not to let you bypass the
shop.


See the last page of
http://www.heathrow.com/file_source/Heathrow/Static/PDF/Maps/Heathrow_T5_Map.pdf

On 25.03.17 1:58, Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Richard J. wrote:
Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ...
For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took
recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two
satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone
not using the satellites.

The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights
(most European flights use the main terminal):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761

Thanks for the photos.

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest
in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these
rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the
public. Apparently they look like this: ...

Here's Bombardier's description.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...le-movers.html

They've installed larger systems with the same equipment at the
Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix airports in the U.S. I've ridden the
Dallas one.

Yes, the current Heathrow T5 installation is quite modest: relatively
short, all underground, all within one terminal, flat and straight (apart
from the crossovers). But it's likely to grow as T2 expands, and again when
when (if) the third runway with associated terminal is built.

I've ridden the DFW system, but a long time ago, and almost certainly an
older generation of trains. Ditto Phoenix.

What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other
terminals?

On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe?

They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which
reportedly has the world's longest escalator.

LHS1 wrote:
On 25.03.17 1:58, Recliner wrote:
John Levine wrote:
In article ,
Richard J. wrote:
Recliner wrote on 24 Mar 2017 at 13:11 ...
For anyone who's interested, I've uploaded a set of photos I took
recently of the underground railway that links Heathrow T5 and its two
satellite terminals. The rubber-tyred railway isn't visible to anyone
not using the satellites.

The two satellites are mainly used by long-haul, wide-body flights
(most European flights use the main terminal):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57679819076761

Thanks for the photos.

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the longest
in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

It's slightly frustrating not to have an external view of these
rubber-tyred trains (trams?), but I guess that's not possible for the
public. Apparently they look like this: ...

Here's Bombardier's description.

http://www.bombardier.com/en/transpo...le-movers.html

They've installed larger systems with the same equipment at the
Dallas-Fort Worth and Phoenix airports in the U.S. I've ridden the
Dallas one.

Yes, the current Heathrow T5 installation is quite modest: relatively
short, all underground, all within one terminal, flat and straight (apart
from the crossovers). But it's likely to grow as T2 expands, and again when
when (if) the third runway with associated terminal is built.

I've ridden the DFW system, but a long time ago, and almost certainly an
older generation of trains. Ditto Phoenix.

What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other
terminals?

Pretty low, I think. The current T5 PRT system was supposed to be the first
stage of a much bigger system to link all the terminals to the business car
parks, in order to reduce the number of shuttle buses. It might even have
been part of the planning conditions for T5. But I don't think anything has
been heard of such expansion plans since T5 opened.

A certain awol cynical member of this group predicted exactly that, and I'm
sad to say he appears to have been proved right. But I fear Mr Polson won't
be along shortly to say, "I told you so".

wrote:
On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe?

They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which
reportedly has the world's longest escalator.


This one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it.

On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe?

They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which
reportedly has the world's longest escalator.


This one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it.

Where is that, Puhung?

There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's
Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator.

On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from
the Pyongyang Metro.

wrote:
On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe?

They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which
reportedly has the world's longest escalator.


This one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it.

Where is that, Puhung?

Yes, PuhÅ*ng.


There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's
Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator.

I don't know if it's longer, but here's one I took at Kaeson station:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717502198/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

Pyongyang is fairly flat, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much
difference in escalator lengths. But it does raise a question: who made
them? I'm guessing it must be a Chinese company. I doubt that North Korea
was capable of making the world's longest escalators back in 1970.


On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from
the Pyongyang Metro.

Sorry, can't help there.

On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:13:51 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, that looks right. From memory, I think the trains have four (or five)
carriages. The much more visible elevated Gatwick inter-terminal shuttle
trains have three carriages.

Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track,
and the number of trains isnt limited to two. There's obvious scope for the
line to be extended to a future third satellite or linked to a rebuilt
central terminal.

One thing that may or not be obvious from the pics is that the Transit is
very clean and well maintained; it still looks brand new, despite being
almost a decade old.

I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins? These vehicles
seem to be in that grey area somewhere in between though the VAL metros
in france are pretty much the same except ridiculously narrow (presumably
for tunneling cost reasons).

--
Spud