Probably because the same equipment runs outside in other places. The
Dallas-Fort Worth system is elevated,

I'm pretty sure the original one was like a roller-coaster, at or below
ground level (see below) and diving under the roads. Only four terminals
then.

The old DFW system built by LTV used lots of small vehicles and tried
too hard to do too many things, e.g., goods trains to move baggage
between terminals, and was hard to adapt when they divided terminals
into landside and post-screening airside areas. Bits of the track are
still visible. It didn't help that LTV left the business so there was
nobody willing to maintain or upgrade it.

The new system is a train with a single circular route with all stops
airside. If you want to change terminals landside, there is an
ordinary rather slow bus.

wrote:
On Fri, 24 Mar 2017 22:13:51 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Yes, that looks right. From memory, I think the trains have four (or five)
carriages. The much more visible elevated Gatwick inter-terminal shuttle
trains have three carriages.

Unlike the Gatwick shuttle, there are points, so trains can switch track,
and the number of trains isnt limited to two. There's obvious scope for the
line to be extended to a future third satellite or linked to a rebuilt
central terminal.

One thing that may or not be obvious from the pics is that the Transit is
very clean and well maintained; it still looks brand new, despite being
almost a decade old.

I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins? These vehicles
seem to be in that grey area somewhere in between though the VAL metros
in france are pretty much the same except ridiculously narrow (presumably
for tunneling cost reasons).

I'd say this is at the people mover end of the spectrum.

But I wouldn't say it was ridiculously narrow:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/33493259211/in/photostream/lightbox/

One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of
575 tonne A380s a few metres above.

On Sat, 25 Mar 2017 21:46:40 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins? These vehicles
seem to be in that grey area somewhere in between though the VAL metros
in france are pretty much the same except ridiculously narrow (presumably
for tunneling cost reasons).

I'd say this is at the people mover end of the spectrum.

But I wouldn't say it was ridiculously narrow:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/33493259211/in/photostream/lightbox/

No, not the T5 one - I was refering the the VAL systems. Even narrower than
a tube train (though higher) and the one in toulouse in the rush hour was not
a pleasent experience.

--
Spud

On 25.03.17 21:26, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe?

They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which
reportedly has the world's longest escalator.


This one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it.

Where is that, Puhung?

Yes, PuhÅ*ng.


There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's
Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator.

I don't know if it's longer, but here's one I took at Kaeson station:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717502198/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

I liked the other pictures as well.


Pyongyang is fairly flat, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much
difference in escalator lengths.

Is there much variation in depths?


But it does raise a question: who made
them? I'm guessing it must be a Chinese company. I doubt that North Korea
was capable of making the world's longest escalators back in 1970.

I thought that they initially received technical assistance from the
Soviet Union, though I know that the rolling stock was Chinese.


On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from
the Pyongyang Metro.

Sorry, can't help there.

I think that they are hard to find.

wrote:
On 25.03.17 21:26, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 25.03.17 17:31, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On 25.03.17 9:31, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:40:59 on Fri, 24 Mar
2017, Richard J. remarked:

I recall that when the transit first opened, Heathrow Airport claimed
that the "very long" escalators from the main termainal were the
longest in London, longer than the longest LU escalators at Angel.

The escalators in recliner's pictures don't look that long. But I'm
convinced the layout at T5, which extends the idea of making people
travel the maximum distance they'll tolerate to and from gates, is to
allow them to be more leisurely about their baggage handling.

There's less walking in T5 than in most other large terminals, such as LHR
T2, either Gatwick terminal or Madrid Barajas T4. It's a very well-designed
terminal that's a pleasure to use (and I'm a regular user of it, which I
don't think you are).

As for the length of the departures escalator, do you really think this
doesn't look very long?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...6761/lightbox/

Here's another pic:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2162/2...56a8379188.jpg

It goes through the equivalent of five high floors:
https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/w/images/b/b2/xHeathrow_terminal_5_section.jpg.pagespeed.ic.0TNb Vhu1wB.jpg

http://www.e-architect.co.uk/images/..._concept4a.jpg

The Wikipedia page claims, without attribution, that "the escalators are
also the longest in the United Kingdom, longer than those at Angel tube
station on the London Underground, which had held the title since 1992".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ange...ion#Escalators

Thus, the longest ones in Western Europe?

They've still got nothing compared with the Pyongyang Metro, which
reportedly has the world's longest escalator.


This one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717487216/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717486808/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

Being so long, no-one attempts to walk up or even down it.

Where is that, Puhung?

Yes, PuhÅ*ng.


There is one station on that network, though I don't think that it's
Puhung, which has what is the world's longest escalator.

I don't know if it's longer, but here's one I took at Kaeson station:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8717502198/in/album-72157633424928749/lightbox/

I liked the other pictures as well.


Pyongyang is fairly flat, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much
difference in escalator lengths.

Is there much variation in depths?

I don't know, but I don't know why there would be. The metro is too deep to
have to be concerned by buildings and roads above. Any rivers are also
high above it.


But it does raise a question: who made
them? I'm guessing it must be a Chinese company. I doubt that North Korea
was capable of making the world's longest escalators back in 1970.

I thought that they initially received technical assistance from the
Soviet Union, though I know that the rolling stock was Chinese.

Yes, you're right, those long escalators may well be Russian. The Russians
do have significant experience of very deep metro lines.



On a side note, I would love to find one of the old metro tokens from
the Pyongyang Metro.

Sorry, can't help there.

I think that they are hard to find.

In message , at 21:31:00 on Sat, 25 Mar
2017, d remarked:

I wonder where "people mover" ends and metro train begins?

The newish system at CDG is pretty long.

Perhaps a working definition might be "is more than half serving outside
of the airport perimeter fence"?
--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 21:46:40 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:

One limiting factor on tunnel size is that they have to bear the weight of
575 tonne A380s a few metres above.

You've not seen the highway tunnels with their portals only metres away
from the runways at Schiphol? https://goo.gl/maps/K5NbbmjqqL42
--
Roland Perry

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 17:25:53 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other
terminals?

Pretty low, I think. The current T5 PRT system was supposed to be the first
stage of a much bigger system to link all the terminals to the business car
parks, in order to reduce the number of shuttle buses. It might even have
been part of the planning conditions for T5. But I don't think anything has
been heard of such expansion plans since T5 opened.

A certain awol cynical member of this group predicted exactly that, and I'm
sad to say he appears to have been proved right. But I fear Mr Polson won't
be along shortly to say, "I told you so".

That was one of the rare things where I agreed with him.

Stage 2 was supposed to be using the side tunnels reaching the central
terminals to get from the car parking adjacent to the perimeter fence.

Zilch.
--
Roland Perry

In message
-septe
mber.org, at 16:33:49 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
From international arrivals,

When I was there people emerged from the customs, and were faced with a
left-right barrier, with greeters crowding along it. Most people then
carried on in the direction the majority exited from #11 and ended up
being met near #13.

So you have to add #11 to #13, and back again.

No, that's a mistake travellers don't make twice. If you're not being met,
there's no need to walk along the line of meeters and greeters in the wrong
direction.

No "need", but the design is such that people get swept along in that
direction with the others. The immediate u-turn is completely
counter-intuitive.

Regular (or even second-time) users take the best exit (the northern
customs exit from the baggage hall, and take the first right on exit).

There aren't many second-time users with that good a memory. Especially
if they have three big terminals at Heathrow and two at Gatwick to cope
with - and that's just one country!
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 17:25:53 on Sat, 25 Mar 2017, Recliner
remarked:
What are the prospects for PRT development at T5, or even to other
terminals?

Pretty low, I think. The current T5 PRT system was supposed to be the first
stage of a much bigger system to link all the terminals to the business car
parks, in order to reduce the number of shuttle buses. It might even have
been part of the planning conditions for T5. But I don't think anything has
been heard of such expansion plans since T5 opened.

A certain awol cynical member of this group predicted exactly that, and I'm
sad to say he appears to have been proved right. But I fear Mr Polson won't
be along shortly to say, "I told you so".

That was one of the rare things where I agreed with him.

Stage 2 was supposed to be using the side tunnels reaching the central
terminals to get from the car parking adjacent to the perimeter fence.

Zilch.

Yup. Those are the business car parks, which were supposed to be
PRT-connected like the T5 business car park. The central terminals' long
stay car park is under the 27R threshold, but I don't think they ever
proposed to connect that to the PRT system.