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Old September 8th 19, 05:53 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:00:18 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
So he can save on the ultra-low emission zone fee, - surely your
average
second hand petrol model achieves that

Perhaps not for long?

Are they changing the standard, as well as the coverage area.

Currently approximates to petrol 2005+, diesels 2015+.

They'll almost certainly tighten the rules at some point. It's like the
exemption from the congestion charge, for which the rules have got
steadily
tighter.


At which point the fleet of secondhand petrol cars will consist of
higher-standard vehicles, which might well not be leap-frogged in the
egregious way Euro5 diesels were.


They won't necessarily be banned, but will have to pay some sort of
emissions tariff, as is happening now. It's probably only a matter of time
before only ZEVs get into central London without some sort of charge, and
the dirtiest vehicles will be banned altogether. But TfL will first have
to
get its own house in order, using only zero-emissions buses in central
London.


Oh Only Rich people allowed to drive then

That'll work well as a tabloid headline


tim




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Old September 8th 19, 05:57 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...

When this group was set up there was a *lot* of discussion of what
"London" meant for the purposes of the charter!


surely it's the area where busses operated by what (I presume) was called
London Transport at the time, go to

even when they go outside the M25 (such as 81 to Slough)



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Old September 8th 19, 06:04 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 18:57:37 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
tim... remarked:
When this group was set up there was a *lot* of discussion of what
"London" meant for the purposes of the charter!


surely it's the area where busses operated by what (I presume) was
called London Transport at the time, go to

even when they go outside the M25 (such as 81 to Slough)


Let's not re-run that debate.
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 8th 19, 06:04 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
On 08/09/2019 11:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:00:18 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
So he can save on the ultra-low emission zone fee, - surely your
average
second hand petrol model achieves that

Perhaps not for long?

Are they changing the standard, as well as the coverage area.

Currently approximates to petrol 2005+, diesels 2015+.

They'll almost certainly tighten the rules at some point. It's like the
exemption from the congestion charge, for which the rules have got
steadily
tighter.


At which point the fleet of secondhand petrol cars will consist of
higher-standard vehicles, which might well not be leap-frogged in the
egregious way Euro5 diesels were.

I think there's also a desire to widen the coverage area (beyond the
Circulars), but not fr a while.


I had an idea they were already considering as far as the M25.


There's a certain amount of resistance to that from communities inside the
M25 that do not consider themselves part of London.


As I'm sure that there is from communities that do consider themselves part
of London who don't have the same bus-every-5-minutes frequency to a tube
station that the Central area does

I bet the residents of Biggin Hill won't be impressed with being told they
have to pay 20 quid to drive to their local supermarket





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Old September 8th 19, 06:06 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 13:00:57 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Graeme Wall remarked:

I had an idea they were already considering as far as the M25.

There's a certain amount of resistance to that from communities inside
the M25 that do not consider themselves part of London.


There's resistance from a lot of people! (See also colloquial
conflation of GLA/M25).


The difference being that the Mayor's writ does not extend as far as
peoples perceptions of London.


Those perceptions including "The GLA", "Inside the M25", "Patrolled by the
Met Police",


now coincides with the GLA

agreed it didn't 30 years (or whatever) ago

tim





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Old September 8th 19, 07:14 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:34:45 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:13:57 on
Sun, 8 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:06:49 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on. There's bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question will be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone, connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?

The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than a
traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't include any
bus routes.

So no problem?

Not in the sense that it could be embarrassingly deficient in the
absence of ZEV buses.


In the tiny Oxford ZEV zone?


London already has ZEV buses that only operate in the centre,

******
and I suppose
there could be a new fleet of PHEV buses with a limited ZEV range that's
enough to cover a central ZEV zone (rather like the new taxis).

Where do you put the transfer bus stations.

Sounds like it's a non-issue?

Other than either the immense cost of ZEV buses to populate inside the
N/S Circular (or wherever the boundary was that week) and transfer
stations to the less environmental buses for people with the temerity to
want to go from inside to outside the zone.


We were discussing Oxford, not London.


See ******


And there you go again, cropping out the relevant part of the conversation:


  #37   Report Post  
Old September 8th 19, 07:20 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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tim... wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 09:00:18 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
So he can save on the ultra-low emission zone fee, - surely your
average
second hand petrol model achieves that

Perhaps not for long?

Are they changing the standard, as well as the coverage area.

Currently approximates to petrol 2005+, diesels 2015+.

They'll almost certainly tighten the rules at some point. It's like the
exemption from the congestion charge, for which the rules have got
steadily
tighter.

At which point the fleet of secondhand petrol cars will consist of
higher-standard vehicles, which might well not be leap-frogged in the
egregious way Euro5 diesels were.


They won't necessarily be banned, but will have to pay some sort of
emissions tariff, as is happening now. It's probably only a matter of time
before only ZEVs get into central London without some sort of charge, and
the dirtiest vehicles will be banned altogether. But TfL will first have
to get its own house in order, using only zero-emissions buses in central
London.


Oh Only Rich people allowed to drive then

That'll work well as a tabloid headline


Have you only just noticed?

The original Congestion Charge (™ Red Ken) was a bonus for plutocrats,
clearing the streets of most of the pesky scruffy, cheap cars driven by
poorer commuters. And Sadiq's ULEZ is another bonus for people with nice
modern cars, clearing the streets of the smoky diesels and old petrol
wrecks. So, yes, Labour mayors go out of the way to banish cheaper, older
cars from London's congested streets, leaving them clear for well-heeled
commuters in shiny new cars.

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Old September 8th 19, 07:49 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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In message , at 19:14:04 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:34:45 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 14:13:57 on
Sun, 8 Sep 2019, Recliner remarked:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2019 13:06:49 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:42:15 on Sun, 8 Sep 2019,
Recliner remarked:

It'll be interesting to see how Oxford's ZEV zone gets on.
There's bound
to be exceptions (ever seen a ZEV Fire Engine?) the question
will be how
far the exceptions will extend. Especially buses, where a ZEV fleet
might be prohibitively expensive.

I don't know much about Oxford's bus routes, but would it be possible to
have a ZEV fleet operating in and just outside the ZEV zone,
connecting to
conventional hybrid buses operating from the edge of the zone?

The proposed ZEV zone is actually quite small. Not a lot bigger than a
traditional pedestrianised town centre. It probably doesn't include any
bus routes.

So no problem?

Not in the sense that it could be embarrassingly deficient in the
absence of ZEV buses.

In the tiny Oxford ZEV zone?


London already has ZEV buses that only operate in the centre,

******
and I suppose
there could be a new fleet of PHEV buses with a limited ZEV range that's
enough to cover a central ZEV zone (rather like the new taxis).

Where do you put the transfer bus stations.

Sounds like it's a non-issue?

Other than either the immense cost of ZEV buses to populate inside the
N/S Circular (or wherever the boundary was that week) and transfer
stations to the less environmental buses for people with the temerity to
want to go from inside to outside the zone.

We were discussing Oxford, not London.


See ******


And there you go again, cropping out the relevant part of the conversation:


I deliberately cropped nothing.

The London-**** is more than halfway down, too. (So trimming down to
there was tempting).
--
Roland Perry
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Old September 9th 19, 08:42 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Sun, Sep 08, 2019 at 09:32:13AM +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

The nearest two Tesla chargers to my house are both 15 minutes drive,
and at hotel/B&B type locations. Are those truly "public"?


As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in. Those "public" charging stations are on
the premises of a hotel, in a car park with prominent signs saying that
it is for paying guests only, and on the forecourt of a Hyundai dealer,
so I *ass*ume that other manufacturers' vehicles aren't welcome.

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Anyone willing to give up a little fun for tolerance deserves neither
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Old September 9th 19, 10:41 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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On Mon, 09 Sep 2019 09:42:48 +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
As I noted the last time people here were stupidly trying to convince
people that electric vehicles were ready for use by real people, the
internet says that there are two public charging stations in the town of
40,000 that my parents live in.


Around half the people in that town have private drives so can install
a private charger like Grant Shapps.


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