I (Mark Brader) wrote:
Incidentally, a new air-conditioning system http://www.enwave.com
is now coming into use for major downtown buildings here in Toronto,
taking advantage of our location on Lake Ontario. Heat from these
buildings is transferred into water being drawn from the lake ...

Keith Chesworth:
The Liverpool Post & Echo Building used/uses water pumped from the
Mersey Tunnel ...

The difference is, water from the bottom of a deep lake is always at
4 degrees Celsius (the temperature where water is densest). Water
pumped out of a tunnel is going to be warmer than that.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "One thing that surprises you about this business
| is the surprises." -- Tim Baker

My text in this article is in the public domain.

"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
John Alexander:
I agree, the idea of cooling the trains on the tube lines is ridiculous
until you extract heat from the stations and tunnel system first...

Any sort of air-conditioning, to provide effective relief, would have
to work no matter whether the train was on a surface, subsurface, or
deep tube section. Therefore it would be necessary to air-condition
the trains *as well* as applying measures to extract heat from the
tunnels and stations.

What is the problem with having a heat pump to suck heat out of a deep
tube platform to a liquid (water?) and then to pump the liquid to the
surface and chill the liquid there for return to the platform?

As someone else said, it's just a matter of money. You either need to
do something like that, or you need to move enough additional air through
the tunnels and stations to ameliorate the heat buildup. The Channel
Tunnel has a cold-water pipe running through each bore to absorb heat
from the trains; the subway systems in New York and Toronto, on the
other hand, without the deep and narrow tunnels that London has, run
air-conditioned trains and let normal air circulation deal with the heat.

Incidentally, a new air-conditioning system http://www.enwave.com
is now coming into use for major downtown buildings here in Toronto,
taking advantage of our location on Lake Ontario. Heat from these
buildings is transferred into water being drawn from the lake for the
city's drinking water system; the drinking water won't get significantly
warmer than it now does in summer, because the water used for this
purpose is coming from a new feed deeper in the lake where the temp-
erature is always 4 Celsius (at which water is densest). Unfortunately,
London doesn't have a Great Lake next to it...
--
Mark Brader

I believe there is a solution, its a bit Heath-Robinson but consists of a
large tanker wagon, filled with water, pulled behind each train. As the
train goes through the tunnel a very fine but copious spray of water is
pumped out behind the train. This will absorb heat from the air and reduce
the temperature. I claim the prize !!!
Cheerz,
( © ) Baz

snip

I believe there is a solution, its a bit Heath-Robinson but consists of a
large tanker wagon, filled with water, pulled behind each train. As the
train goes through the tunnel a very fine but copious spray of water is
pumped out behind the train. This will absorb heat from the air and reduce
the temperature. I claim the prize !!!
Cheerz,
( © ) Baz

But GHY with the humidity levels caused

Keith J Chesworth
www.unseenlondon.co.uk
www.blackpooltram.co.uk
www.happysnapper.com
www.boilerbill.com - main site
www.amerseyferry.co.uk

"Marratxi"

I believe there is a solution, its a bit Heath-Robinson but consists of a
large tanker wagon, filled with water, pulled behind each train. As the
train goes through the tunnel a very fine but copious spray of water is
pumped out behind the train. This will absorb heat from the air and reduce
the temperature. I claim the prize !!!
Cheerz,
( © ) Baz



Hmmm, yes. But just a couple of points to dampen your euphoria (without
wishing to be a complete wet sponge).

What happens to all the water so sprayed?

Having pulled this tanker to the end of the line how does it get transferred
to the rear of the train and refilled in time for the return journey?

In article ,
(Marratxi) wrote:


"Mark Brader" wrote in message
...
John Alexander:
I agree, the idea of cooling the trains on the tube lines is
ridiculous
until you extract heat from the stations and tunnel system first...

Any sort of air-conditioning, to provide effective relief, would have
to work no matter whether the train was on a surface, subsurface, or
deep tube section. Therefore it would be necessary to air-condition
the trains *as well* as applying measures to extract heat from the
tunnels and stations.

What is the problem with having a heat pump to suck heat out of a
deep
tube platform to a liquid (water?) and then to pump the liquid to
the
surface and chill the liquid there for return to the platform?

As someone else said, it's just a matter of money. You either need to
do something like that, or you need to move enough additional air
through
the tunnels and stations to ameliorate the heat buildup. The Channel
Tunnel has a cold-water pipe running through each bore to absorb heat
from the trains; the subway systems in New York and Toronto, on the
other hand, without the deep and narrow tunnels that London has, run
air-conditioned trains and let normal air circulation deal with the
heat.

Incidentally, a new air-conditioning system http://www.enwave.com
is now coming into use for major downtown buildings here in Toronto,
taking advantage of our location on Lake Ontario. Heat from these
buildings is transferred into water being drawn from the lake for the
city's drinking water system; the drinking water won't get
significantly
warmer than it now does in summer, because the water used for this
purpose is coming from a new feed deeper in the lake where the temp-
erature is always 4 Celsius (at which water is densest).
Unfortunately,
London doesn't have a Great Lake next to it...
--
Mark Brader

I believe there is a solution, its a bit Heath-Robinson but consists of
a
large tanker wagon, filled with water, pulled behind each train. As the
train goes through the tunnel a very fine but copious spray of water is
pumped out behind the train. This will absorb heat from the air and
reduce
the temperature. I claim the prize !!!
Cheerz,
( © ) Baz



but the heat would still remain somewhere, even if absorbed into the water
droplets. It's just like the cooling effect of a fan, it doesn't actually
cool a room in a real sense, unless it expels the hot air outside the
room. Perhaps there could be another wagon following that to collect the
warm water for disposal at the end of the tunnel :-)

Roger
(my reader sometimes loses mail/newsgroup messages
- if you think you should have had a reply/comment,
please e-mail me again. Ta!)

wrote in message
...
Heavy snippage !!



but the heat would still remain somewhere, even if absorbed into the water
droplets. It's just like the cooling effect of a fan, it doesn't actually
cool a room in a real sense, unless it expels the hot air outside the
room. Perhaps there could be another wagon following that to collect the
warm water for disposal at the end of the tunnel :-)

Roger

Tfl already claim (as mentioned earlier in this thread) to pump millions of
litres of water a day out of the system, this would be just a little more !!
Cheerz,
Baz

"Piccadilly Pilot" wrote in message
...
"Marratxi"
I believe there is a solution, its a bit Heath-Robinson but consists of
a
large tanker wagon, filled with water, pulled behind each train. As the
train goes through the tunnel a very fine but copious spray of water is
pumped out behind the train. This will absorb heat from the air and
reduce
the temperature. I claim the prize !!!
Cheerz,
( © ) Baz

Hmmm, yes. But just a couple of points to dampen your euphoria (without
wishing to be a complete wet sponge).
What happens to all the water so sprayed?
Having pulled this tanker to the end of the line how does it get
transferred
to the rear of the train and refilled in time for the return journey?

1. The water gets pumped out along with all the other water which
accumulates in the tunnels.
2. The tanker is long and low so the driver can see over the top of it when
returning - there could be a tanker at each end of the train and a large
water-delivery pipe at each end of the journey, rather like some
water-powered funiculars are re-charged. I didn't say it was elegant but I
believe its simple, cheap and it would work - spray yourself with a mister
and see how well it cools you.
Cheerz,
Baz

"Andrew P Smith" wrote in message
...
In article , Stuart
writes

Eh? how can water have a sell-by date. It's water, it doesn't go off.

Wrong - it's bottled mineral water - they all have a sell/use by date.

The sell-by date is determined by the contamination of the water by the
plastic container.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
75th Anniversary 2004, see http://www.omnibussoc.org/75th.htm
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

Last summer we had crates of bottled water on the station for emergency
use. Unfortunately when we thought we might need it a week or so ago, it
was all past its Sell-By date.

You could have just done a "Coca-Cola" emptied all the bottles and
filled them with tap water from Kent.

David Walters wrote in message . ..

Might be an even better idea if they had some free water fountains on each
platform.

It wouldn't be allowed by H&S.

Why not? One of the things I like about The US is in most public
places their will be a water fountain. If they can handle it why
can't we?

Don't you remember that Quincy episode where someone dumped some
bad food into a sink and it got siphoned unnoticed into the
water fountains, causing botulism ?

Having seen the inside of some LUL washrooms, I wouldn't like to
drink from a tap served by the same supply.

Also, a drinking fountain would inevitably get gobbed in, ****ed
in, or be treated as an ashtray or garbage receptacle. Presumably
the Americans don't suffer from this sort of thing.


Water would have to be in sealed containers.

Why is it different from the tap in the corner of my office?

Your office is in a controled environment, and doesn't have
unknown unwashed people visiting it for 21h a day.

Richard [in PO7]