Marc Brett wrote:
Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong

But is there a proven alternative to speed bumps, round or
flat tops, and the raised platforms our Council are fitting at
each minor road junction?

taywood wrote:
Marc Brett wrote:
Everything we know about traffic-calming is wrong

But is there a proven alternative to speed bumps, round or
flat tops, and the raised platforms our Council are fitting at
each minor road junction?

Yes. No speed humps or platforms.

--
http://www.speedlimit.org.uk
"Banning things others enjoy is the only pleasure some people get."

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 21:10:50 GMT, Velvet
wrote in message :

Look, I've explained how ABS could stop ME quicker, you'll note I've not
said it'll stop EVERYONE quicker.
Perhaps you overlooked that subtle point?

Nope, not overlooked. You really do need to read Risk: John Adams
says it far better than I can.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:25:28 +0100, "PeterE"
wrote in message
:

But is there a proven alternative to speed bumps, round or
flat tops, and the raised platforms our Council are fitting at
each minor road junction?

Yes. No speed humps or platforms.

Or paint or signage.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

All snipped, since replying to myself rarely makes sense.

I quote from a few websites...

Q. Does ABS reduce stopping distances?

A. Yes, in braking situations where the wheels on a non-ABS equipped
vehicle would lock up, ABS will generally provide shorter controlled
stopping distance. The amount of improvement in stopping distance
depends on many factors, including the road surface, severity of
braking, initial vehicle speed, etc. On some surfaces, such as gravel
roads, braking distances can be longer, but you will still have the
control benefits of ABS. The important capability of ABS is control. ABS
provides improved vehicle steerability and stability when braking.

(from the General Motors website gm.com, who, presumably, should
understand this concept of ABS)

Rotational-speed sensors continuously monitor each wheel. As soon as
incipient lock-up is detected at a wheel, ABS temporarily reduces the
braking pressureat the wheel in question to such a degree that lock-up
is prevented.

ABS repeats this monitoring and control cycle in rapid succession for
each wheel. This form of electronic wheel-slip control ensures optimum
braking distances while at the same time maintaining full steerability
and stability.

“ABS substantially improves driving stability and usually shortens the
brake path as well,” says Wolfgang Drees, member of the management board
at Robert Bosch GmbH and head of its Chassis Systems division.

(From bosch.de, who designed ABS)


The only data I can find (and I can find no actual study data on any of
this) indicates that ABS when incorrectly used leads to longer stopping
distances (user pumps brakes when ABS is fitted - bad!), and that ABS on
loose surfaces can lead to longer stopping distances.

However, everything I'm reading says that in most situations because it
can keep the car on the limit of skidding more accurately than a driver
(who physically can't pump the brakes 15 times a second, for example) it
will perform at least as well, and even on dry roads where the friction
coefficient is greatest, normally slightly better. On wetter roads, or
differing surfaces, it greatly outperforms the driver with no ABS.

I'm now bored of this and have realised that I've spent a good half an
hour looking stuff up to find out if what I've believed is correct
(which it seems to be) so now I'm off to get on my bike and burn some
more calories, though of course, I'll be making sure to find out if it's
got ABS on before I decide how I should brake in an emergency, of course ;-)

--


Velvet

"Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:25:28 +0100, "PeterE"
wrote in message
:

But is there a proven alternative to speed bumps, round or
flat tops, and the raised platforms our Council are fitting at
each minor road junction?

Yes. No speed humps or platforms.

Or paint or signage.


We can dream :-)

Tony Raven wrote:
AndyMorris wrote:

Dope messes with your perception of speed, smoke enough and try to
drive and the cops will pull you over for doing 10 mph on a clear
road.

Sounds like that might have been personal experience there ;-)

Tony

I wasn't driving, but I was giving the driver some stick for doing 25 round
Huddersfield ring road.

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK


Love this:
Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

Velvet wrote:

Q. Does ABS reduce stopping distances?

A. Yes, in braking situations where the wheels on a non-ABS equipped
vehicle would lock up, ABS will generally provide shorter controlled
stopping distance. The amount of improvement in stopping distance
depends on many factors, including the road surface, severity of
braking, initial vehicle speed, etc. On some surfaces, such as gravel
roads, braking distances can be longer, but you will still have the
control benefits of ABS. The important capability of ABS is control.
ABS provides improved vehicle steerability and stability when braking.

In other words, yes and no, but for practical purposes no, unless the wheels
would be locking up. Which they generally don't. And, as stated, "the
important capability of ABS is control."

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

On 21/6/04 6:57 pm, in article
, "Velvet"
wrote:

I've braked on ice with ABS - it was interesting and I'm glad I did it
gently. Stopped car from sliding but took a VERY long time to stop the
car. On the other hand, braked once on snow and had to do a very
abs-like recovery of it to stop in time (downhill on snow toward T
junction).

Snow and ice are like that. Very slippery, ABS or not.

I used to live in Norway and even with winter tyres would still take a long
time to stop. In some situations it is so slippery ABS won't help. In
general though I do a brake test and see how long it takes to stop. Despite
being a very cautious driver (I'm the one who enjoys the open road ahead of
them..) I almost always ended up slowing down further.

Having proper winter tyres on the bike is also a lot of fun. Normal tyres
will just slide on black ice.. studded tyres are absolutely fantastic. I've
towed the trailer up a 1 in 10 hill on sheet ice. Kind of mind blowing when
you can hardly walk up the hill.

...d

On 21/6/04 10:23 pm, in article , "taywood"
wrote:

But is there a proven alternative to speed bumps, round or
flat tops, and the raised platforms our Council are fitting at
each minor road junction?

Impound speeding cars for a day per % over the speed limit (after some
arbitrary cutoff like 5mph). That'll soon prevent speeding. Combine that
with concealed cameras.

Priority to the left in residential streets (as per the continent).

Both these two would make the roads much safer in built up areas

(and scrap the speed bumps).

...d