On 29 Mar 2005 19:24:14 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote:

So I am even more confused now. If I buy a ticket to "London Terminals"
it is only valid to some terminals. How do I find out which terminals it is
valid to?

I believe you treat all of them as if they were one station, and so
which you can use is a factor of where the Permitted Routes to that
one "virtual" London station end up.

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

Barry Salter wrote:
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:12:55 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:


I thought that *all* rail season tickets were automatically valid for
all combinations of stations on a valid route between the end points.
Can you explain what is special about your ticket that makes this not
true?


For a Thameslink journey to, or through, Farringdon, Barbican and
Moorgate your ticket MUST have Underground Zone 1 validity. A ticket to
London Terminals isn't valid beyond City Thameslink from the South and
St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink from the North.

What about the "London Thameslink" destination?

Googling that brings up the following:
http://www.travelbuddy.info/main.php...id=6&page_id=9

"Thameslink customers travelling to or from stations between Bedford and
West Hampstead Thameslink are issued with tickets marked "London
Thameslink" for the following London stations: Farringdon, Barbican,
Moorgate, City Thameslink, Blackfriars and London Bridge.

These "London Thameslink" tickets allow passengers travelling from the
north to join the London Underground system at King's Cross St Pancras
Underground station and to leave it at one of the London Thameslink
destinations stated in the previous paragraph. These tickets work the
ticket gates at these Underground stations. Alternatively, passengers
will be able to take bus 63/N63 or bus 45/N45 from outside St Pancras
station to get to their Thameslink destination.

Passengers who travel from central London Thameslink stations to
stations in the north are able to use the Tube or bus 45/N45 or 63/N63
to King's Cross St Pancras to connect with Thameslink at St Pancras.

If you do not wish to travel south beyond St Pancras you will be issued
with a ticket to "London Terminals"."

And:

"Customers travelling to London from the south, including the Brighton
line and the Wimbledon – Sutton – Carshalton line, will continue to be
issued with tickets with the destination “London Terminals” if
travelling to London Bridge, Blackfriars or City Thameslink. Customers
travelling to Farringdon or King's Cross Thameslink from the south will
continue to receive tickets naming these specific stations."

You don't need Underground Zone 1 validity to travel to Farringdon etc.,
but you do need an appropriate Thameslink ticket, e.g. Luton to London
Thameslink will get you to Farringdon (or anywhere as far as London Bridge).

--
Dave Arquati
Imperial College, SW7
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:12:55 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

I thought that *all* rail season tickets were automatically valid for
all combinations of stations on a valid route between the end points.
Can you explain what is special about your ticket that makes this not
true?

For a Thameslink journey to, or through, Farringdon, Barbican and
Moorgate your ticket MUST have Underground Zone 1 validity. A ticket to
London Terminals isn't valid beyond City Thameslink from the South and
St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink from the North.

I can't explain the logic behind this, but it's probably due to the
"special" status of the former "Widened Lines" as part of the Met.

However the Conditions of Carriage say that through trains are always valid
routes. This would mean that for example on an Any Permitted East Croydon -
London Terminals ticket you could travel to KX Thameslink providing you used
a through train.

Peter Smyth

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:53:17 +0100, "Peter Smyth"
wrote:

However the Conditions of Carriage say that through trains are always valid
routes. This would mean that for example on an Any Permitted East Croydon -
London Terminals ticket you could travel to KX Thameslink providing you used
a through train.

Isn't Thameslink a special case, because it's effectively LU in
ticketing terms when you get into the central area?

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Peter Smyth wrote:

"Barry Salter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:12:55 +0100, Clive Page
wrote:

I thought that *all* rail season tickets were automatically valid for
all combinations of stations on a valid route between the end points.
Can you explain what is special about your ticket that makes this not
true?

For a Thameslink journey to, or through, Farringdon, Barbican and
Moorgate your ticket MUST have Underground Zone 1 validity. A ticket
to London Terminals isn't valid beyond City Thameslink from the South
and St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink from the North.

I can't explain the logic behind this, but it's probably due to the
"special" status of the former "Widened Lines" as part of the Met.

However the Conditions of Carriage say that through trains are always
valid routes. This would mean that for example on an Any Permitted East
Croydon - London Terminals ticket you could travel to KX Thameslink
providing you used a through train.

Of course, this does not apply if you are in knip.

tom

--
China Mieville has shown us how to be a good socialist and a bad science fiction writer. -- The Times

On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:47:36 +0000, Neil Williams wrote:

On 29 Mar 2005 19:24:14 GMT, "Andrew Black (delete obvious bit)"
wrote:

So I am even more confused now. If I buy a ticket to "London Terminals"
it is only valid to some terminals. How do I find out which terminals it is
valid to?

I believe you treat all of them as if they were one station, and so
which you can use is a factor of where the Permitted Routes to that
one "virtual" London station end up.

Neil

Presumably valid on Thameslink (Gatwick - Kings Cross), but not on
underground (Gatwick - Liverpool Street)
--
Everything I write here is my personal opinion, and should not be taken as fact.

"Matthew" wrote in message
...
1. I use my National Rail season which is valid as far as City
Thameslink.

You are travelling without a valid ticket between City Thameslink and
Farringdon. To combine a paper National Rail ticket and Oyster Prepay
you must touch in where your paper ticket ends, at City Thameslink.

I suspected as much. So what happens in the (very unlikely) event that a
gripper asks to see my ticket during the 30 seconds between City Thameslink
and Farringdon? Do they carry Oyster readers? I think it's daft that I
should have to break my journey at Blackfriars or City Thameslink, although
there is probably enough time to leap off the train at London Bridge, use
the platform validator, and then get back on - but this would carry the risk
of losing one's seat.

They can hardly claim that I'm trying to avoid paying the fare ...

David Stocks

In article , Barry Salter
writes
For a Thameslink journey to, or through, Farringdon, Barbican and
Moorgate your ticket MUST have Underground Zone 1 validity. A ticket to
London Terminals isn't valid beyond City Thameslink from the South and
St Pancras/Kings Cross Thameslink from the North.

Just to confuse the issue further: one can buy tickets from stations in
Thameslink North (e.g. Luton) to those in Thameslink South (e.g.
Gatwick) which are routed "Thameslink only" i.e. they are not valid for
cross-london travel via underground, nor at any U1 station, but only via
Farringdon etc. I'm not sure at what point the rules change - if you ask
for a ticket from Luton to a destination in south London within the
travelcard zone system, you tend to get a zonal ticket as being the
cheapest. But other ticket types must surely exist, e.g. for travel in
peak hours.

--
Clive Page

On 25 Mar 2005 01:13:00 -0800, "Rupert Candy"
wrote:


Matthew wrote:
.. .
The gates at London Bridge on the National Rail platforms will let
you
through with only prepay on an oystercard, but will not deduct any
fare or resolve the journey. The validators on platforms 5/6 must
be
used even if you have already touched in or out there.

That could be useful to know, if only to avoid putting my season
ticket
through the gates.

Frequent use may well be monitored to stop "dumb-belling".

What does 'dumb-belling' mean?

Does anyone know the position with the gates/validators at
Farringdon? A
typical scenario is an occasional journey Brighton to Moorgate and
return:

1. I use my National Rail season which is valid as far as City
Thameslink.

You are travelling without a valid ticket between City Thameslink and
Farringdon. To combine a paper National Rail ticket and Oyster Prepay
you must touch in where your paper ticket ends, at City Thameslink.

2. At Farringdon I validate the prepay card on the platform (does it
matter
which platform I do this on?) and then
3. Change to the Underground for Moorgate.
4. At Moorgate I the prepay card lets me out through the gates.

Prepay requires a touch in and out, so your usual journey is valid
between Farringdon & Moorgate. Just touching out at Farringdon would
lead to an unresolved journey.

On a related note, has anyone ever tried using Prepay on the Kentish
Town - E&C section of Thameslink? If so, were you charged Tube fares
for doing so?

Prepay is not valid travelling south from Kentish Town at the moment
as there are no validators at St. Pancras and touching in again at
Kings Cross Thameslink will lead to an unresolved journey.

"Clive Page" wrote in message
...
In article , Barry Salter
writes

Just to confuse the issue further: one can buy tickets from stations in
Thameslink North (e.g. Luton) to those in Thameslink South (e.g. Gatwick)
which are routed "Thameslink only" i.e. they are not valid for
cross-london travel via underground, nor at any U1 station, but only via

I think that in general the "Thameslink only" wording is used badly, i.e.
it's overly simplified.

I've been sold Thameslink tickets from Brighton to London (sometimes they
have been cheaper than Southern ones) which include a zone 1-6 travelcard,
yet still say "Thameslink only" which I've always presumed applies just to
the journey between the outside of zone 6 and Brighton. But to a tourist or
pedant (!) that detail could be a cause of worry.

Recently though I was travelling to London Bridge on a day when Thameslinks
weren't stopping there (going straight to Blackfriars) and was told by the
ticket office to get on a Southern service instead. Fortunately didn't meet
anybody on the train who might have argued!

K