On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:03:22 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:33:17 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Gets better though, 'cos the Customer Charter trigger is a 15 minute
wait, so you'd be able to claim a refund most of the time, it seems

Isn't that for a 15 minute *delay*? Otherwise the residents of
Chesham, Chigwell etc could get free journeys whenever they wanted...

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article . com,
() wrote:

The first time I've seen this happen on a scheduled basis: when the
District and Piccadilly lines are closed between Acton and Earls
Court for scheduled engineering works over a number of weekends in
the next twelve months, travelcards valid to Central London to
Heathrow (Z1-6)will be accepted on both Heathrow Express and
Heathrow Connect services.

Full details in the TfL press release at:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

And what does this mean?

"It will not be possible to run a bus service to and from Barons
Court because of local street traffic conditions".

Why can't they stop on West Cromwell Road to serve Baron's Court if
they really can't turn round at the station?

Talgarth Road, which is the part of the A4 at Barons Court, is IIRC a
No-stopping Clearway at all times.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

In message ,
Colin Rosenstiel writes

And what does this mean?

"It will not be possible to run a bus service to and from Barons Court
because of local street traffic conditions".

Why can't they stop on West Cromwell Road to serve Baron's Court if they
really can't turn round at the station?

If the service was extended from Hammersmith to Barons Court, it would
need to be turned there - but there is no right turn off the A4 to the
station.

I don't think there's much chance of a stop on the A4 itself (without
legislation) as it is a red-route and very busy.

Having said all that, I should have thought it might be possible to turn
left off the A4, up towards Edith Road, and then stop soon after leaving
the A4, returning to Hammersmith along the Hammersmith Road.
Nevertheless, there would probably not be any room for a stopover, and
it would leave an awkward crossing for people back over the busy
Talgarth Road.

I suspect the truth of the matter is that Baron's Court is not greatly
used by westbound passengers, especially at weekends - and Hammersmith
is only a short walk away for those that do need the tube.

--
Paul Terry

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Of course, they could always just use 2 trains, and actually provide a
decent frequency. 3tph just doesn't cut it. It's a slap in the face
considering the "customers" are already being highly inconvenienced by
the closures.

Quite so.

Ideally, rather than relying on the shuttle, they'd extend the Heathrow -
Acton Town Piccadilly stub to Ealing Broadway, via a reverse at Acton
Town. I'm assuming the track layout permits this; i'd guess lack of
drivers who know both legs prevents it, though. Trying to do that at any
useful rate of trains per hour would also be a bit of a challenge.

tom

--
I know you wanna try and get away, but it's the hardest thing you'll ever know

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:17:55 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Erm, what would be the point in stepping back? They'd need to have 3
drivers for that. They could just use 2 trains, have a higher
frequency, and only require 2 drivers.

In article ,
(Paul Terry) wrote:

I suspect the truth of the matter is that Baron's Court is not greatly
used by westbound passengers, especially at weekends - and Hammersmith
is only a short walk away for those that do need the tube.

Not the last time I used it, to get the Piccadilly to King's Cross from
Olympia 2.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:17:55 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, asdf wrote:

Full details in the TfL press release at:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/press-cent...s-releases-con
tent.asp?prID=398

The release also says:

"Customers can still travel between Central London and Heathrow on the
Underground via the Central line to Ealing Broadway then the District line
shuttle to Acton Town which will operate at a frequency of three trains
per hour and then the Piccadilly line to Heathrow Terminals 123"

Well, that's great. However, given that it takes 6 minutes for a train to
fo from Ealing Broadway to Acton Town, how on earth does the shuttle work
out at 3 tph? Even if it was worked by just one train, taking 6 minutes
either way and having a 3-minute rest, that's 4 tph!

Only 1.5 mins turnaround at each end, for the entire day, would be a
bit hectic...

I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Erm, what would be the point in stepping back? They'd need to have 3
drivers for that. They could just use 2 trains, have a higher frequency,
and only require 2 drivers.

Ah, er, yes, of course i was hoping you'd spot that. Yes, good point.

tom

--
In-jokes for out-casts

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:31:03 +0100, asdf
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:17:55 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

[Acton-ealing shuttle]
I guess they'd have to step back. Other than that, i don't see why it
should be a big problem - after all, a normal station stop is shorter than
that.

Erm, what would be the point in stepping back? They'd need to have 3
drivers for that. They could just use 2 trains, have a higher
frequency, and only require 2 drivers.

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

[Acton-ealing shuttle]

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.

http://www.simonclarke.org/lul/maps/pic_strip.gif shows 3...

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:34:48 +0100, asdf
wrote:

[Acton-ealing shuttle]

I think someone has underestimated the timing and pathing issues here.

As all trains will need to reverse at Acton - that's all Heathrows,
Rayners Lane and the Ealing Shuttle via one (?) turnback siding [1]
between the Picc Line tracks I think a 20 minute frequency is pretty
good going! The working arrangements are going to have to be pretty
slick to handle all the movements without huge train jams developing on
the approaches to Acton from the west.

[1] happy to be corrected by our resident train drivers if I've got this
wrong. I can't find my track plan.

http://www.simonclarke.org/lul/maps/pic_strip.gif shows 3...

That map is rather neat. Ta.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!