On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:17:21 +0100, Clive
wrote:

As the driver passes a fare stage he updates his ticket issuing
equipment with the next code. How do you do this when you're off
route? And how do you account for passengers that you accrue whilst
off route? Are they insured etc..
--

What fare stages? London is now a flat-fare area.

Well, so as Thomas has helpfully pointed out to all of the
jobsworth-mentality replies: the 49s ARE supposed to be picking up at
all stops off route. So, come on jobsworths, let's hear your spleen
vented against the jobsworth drivers who are NOT doing what they are
paid to do!

As for complaining to London Buses, Paul, - yes, I attempted to do so
but was put on hold for so long that I gave up.

My experience is that so often buses ON ROUTE fail to stop at
compulsory stops, which again, jobsworths take note, they are SUPPOSED
to do, even if no passenger is at the stop or nobody has rung the bell.
#

And, Clive, as far as buses running on or off route - you are clearly
living in the past as far as the 295 is concerned; it regularly goes
off route at the Clapham Junction end due to heavy traffic a the top
end of Plough Lane, and deposits passengers at the wrong side of
Clapham Junction station, ensuring a 10-minute walk for anyone who
expected to be deposited ON ROUTE at the St. John's Hill side. The
place that passengers are deposited is not even a bus stop of any sort!


Laurence, you say

"What would YOUR face, as the driver, be showing? A reluctance to
catch the eye of passengers you COULD serve but have been instructed
not to?":

Clearly the drivers are refusing to catch the passengers' eye because
they are being bloody minded and doing precisely what they are NOT
supposed to be doing - refusing to pick up at stops on the diversion.

Marc.

In message , Laurence Payne
writes
What fare stages? London is now a flat-fare area.
To passengers this is true, but the fare collecting machines still have
to be updated by the driver at Fare stages or Compulsory stops as you
call them, of which none will be off route.
--
Clive

On 26 Sep 2005 16:38:02 -0700, "
wrote:

My experience is that so often buses ON ROUTE fail to stop at
compulsory stops, which again, jobsworths take note, they are SUPPOSED
to do, even if no passenger is at the stop or nobody has rung the bell.

Wouldn't it make sense to remove these, except at bus stations and the
likes? Nowhere else in the country has them, and IMX[1] people ring
the bell and/or put their hand out anyway.

The alternative would of course be to go for the German approach of
"stop if someone is at the stop unless they indicate otherwise". This
has the advantage that you don't get buses overtaking buses which
results in people missing them.

[1] For some reason, that I'm yet to work out, people often don't
signal the bus to stop in Milton Keynes; they just stand in a "I look
like I'm waiting for the bus" place, even on hail-and-ride routes. To
their great credit, the drivers are pretty good at working this out,
which is probably why it continues - but I wonder where this idea
comes from?

Neil

--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
When replying please use neil at the above domain
'wensleydale' is a spam trap and is not read.

In message , Clive
writes

but the fare collecting machines still have to be updated by the driver
at Fare stages or Compulsory stops as you call them

I recall this being mentioned here before, but does anyone know *why*
this is done?

--
Paul Terry

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 08:20:04 GMT, (Neil
Williams) wrote:


[1] For some reason, that I'm yet to work out, people often don't
signal the bus to stop in Milton Keynes; they just stand in a "I look
like I'm waiting for the bus" place, even on hail-and-ride routes. To
their great credit, the drivers are pretty good at working this out,
which is probably why it continues - but I wonder where this idea
comes from?

Because they aren't people, they're concrete cows?

On 26 Sep 2005 16:38:02 -0700, "
wrote:

Well, so as Thomas has helpfully pointed out to all of the
jobsworth-mentality replies: the 49s ARE supposed to be picking up at
all stops off route. So, come on jobsworths, let's hear your spleen
vented against the jobsworth drivers who are NOT doing what they are
paid to do!

What? Now you've shifted the goal-posts? You were kicking off when
you didn't even know the buses in question are (allegedly) supposed to
stop on the diversion, so people pointed out why buses shouldn't
necessarily stop on diversions.
--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

No, Nick, how have I shifted the goalposts?

I "kicked off" when buses failed to stop - when I had suspected they
are supposed to, since that is what has happened in other diversions of
which I have known, but did not know at that stage that a public
announcement had been made confirming what I had suspected.

So, having had my suspicions confirmed, I am even more justified in
criticising drivers for not stopping. By doing so they are not only
acting without any human feeling whatsoever, they are actually in
breach of their employment contracts.

Let me make it clear however, that I would have been justified in my
criticism even if drivers had not been instructed to stop on diversion
stops. In the general betterment of humanity, i.e. moving as many
passengers as efficiently as possible, I have yet to read a single
cogent argument against buses stopping on diversion. They are meant to
be providing a SERVICE to US: our fares and taxes are not merely being
paid so as to provide comfortable seats for drivers to occupy whilst
their virtually empty buses move at crawling pace on a diversion.

Let me also make it clear that, in all things, as a human being I would
act as my CONSCIENCE dictated in any event and, if my bus was held up
in a traffic jam opposite a long queue of people, I personally could
not have failed to open the door to see if I could offer assistance. In
the unlikely event that this led to disciplinary action against me, I'd
be more than happy to fight my case and no Industrial Tribunal in the
country would (if it went that far) uphold a dismissal for such an act
of human decency.

Marc.

On 27 Sep 2005 05:10:07 -0700, "
wrote:

Let me also make it clear that, in all things, as a human being I would
act as my CONSCIENCE dictated in any event and, if my bus was held up
in a traffic jam opposite a long queue of people, I personally could
not have failed to open the door to see if I could offer assistance. In
the unlikely event that this led to disciplinary action against me, I'd
be more than happy to fight my case and no Industrial Tribunal in the
country would (if it went that far) uphold a dismissal for such an act
of human decency.

Yeah. And when I catch the last 'bus home, which terminates at the
hospital (don't we all :-) but then continues to the depot past the
end of my road, it's only common decency for the driver to give me a
lift. But he's in trouble if he's caught doing it.

In message . com,
" writes
Let me also make it clear that, in all things, as a human being I would
act as my CONSCIENCE dictated in any event and, if my bus was held up
in a traffic jam opposite a long queue of people, I personally could
not have failed to open the door to see if I could offer assistance. In
the unlikely event that this led to disciplinary action against me, I'd
be more than happy to fight my case and no Industrial Tribunal in the
country would (if it went that far) uphold a dismissal for such an act
of human decency.
You've got your head in the clouds. To keep down costs busses are only
insured on their approved routes and to pick someone up whilst off route
is against the law insurance wise. I wouldn't bet on your keeping
your job if anything went wrong, let alone not being prosecuted by the
police.
--
Clive