This article is worrying:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4361286.stm

I would like to be able to buy an Oyster reader (similar to that used
by inspectors) so I can check that my Oyster has been processed
correctly after boarding a bus or tram.

The problem is you have no proof that you have paid - at least if I had
an Oyster reader if I see a problem with my card I can try to validate
my Oyster Card again.

I would like to be able to buy an Oyster reader (similar to that used
by inspectors) so I can check that my Oyster has been processed
correctly after boarding a bus or tram.

The problem is you have no proof that you have paid - at least if I had
an Oyster reader if I see a problem with my card I can try to validate
my Oyster Card again.

Just think what could happen with a contactless system to read the data on
the card , when it falls in the hands of those using it for fraudulent
reasons..
Just mingle in an underground train with the punters, and obtain all of the
personal data stored on it... sounds pretty horendous. I doubt if you will
ever have an oyster card reader...

On 20 Oct 2005 14:36:13 -0700, "Clive Dennis"
wrote:

This article is worrying:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4361286.stm

I would like to be able to buy an Oyster reader (similar to that used
by inspectors) so I can check that my Oyster has been processed
correctly after boarding a bus or tram.

The problem is you have no proof that you have paid - at least if I had
an Oyster reader if I see a problem with my card I can try to validate
my Oyster Card again.


The article was designed to be worrying.

There always turns out to be considerable subtext to this sort of
thing. Let's see what emerges. I'll almost guarantee she had an
agenda.

On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 23:09:11 GMT, "turbo"
wrote:

Just think what could happen with a contactless system to read the data on
the card , when it falls in the hands of those using it for fraudulent
reasons..
Just mingle in an underground train with the punters, and obtain all of the
personal data stored on it... sounds pretty horendous. I doubt if you will
ever have an oyster card reader...

What personal data? The card has an identity. The central system
can correlate that identity with a name and address. What makes you
think that information is stored on the card?

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:40:15 +0100, Barry Salter
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 00:56:14 +0100, Laurence Payne
wrote:

There always turns out to be considerable subtext to this sort of
thing. Let's see what emerges. I'll almost guarantee she had an
agenda.

I'd be willing to lay money on her Oyster not having been read properly
(perhaps because she didn't touch it flat to the disc) and the driver
not having called her back, given the 94 is a "normal" Double Decker
route.

I'd further suggest that she was given the option of paying the £20
Penalty Fare, declined to do so, failed to pay within 21 days, and
*that* is why TfL are taking her to Court.

This was in the 'Standard' on Monday. It said: "neither the machine
nor the driver warned her the payment had apparently failed." Reading
between the lines, that suggested she _didn't_ get a green light, but
she still boarded, without querying it with the driver. Saying, "the
machine didn't warn me," is lame.


--
Nick Cooper

[Carefully remove the detonators from my e-mail address to reply!]

The London Underground at War, and in Films & TV:
http://www.nickcooper.org.uk/

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:40:15 +0100 someone who may be Barry Salter
wrote this:-

I'd further suggest that she was given the option of paying the £20
Penalty Fare, declined to do so, failed to pay within 21 days, and
*that* is why TfL are taking her to Court.

Er, why should someone pay a "penalty" fare if they have already
paid the fare by a card gizmo?

As with cash machines there seems to be an assumption, which the
operators are not keen to correct, that machines always work.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

After I board the bus, once the bus has left the stop, when the driver
gets to the next stop, can I ask the driver if my Oyster Card was
validated?

Can I request a receipt for my Oyster validation from the driver's
Wayfarer?

On the tram, though, there is no ticket staff - does the tram driver
have a reader? How can I prove my innocence on a tram?

"Clive Dennis" wrote in message
oups.com...
After I board the bus, once the bus has left the stop, when the driver
gets to the next stop, can I ask the driver if my Oyster Card was
validated?

Can I request a receipt for my Oyster validation from the driver's
Wayfarer?

On the tram, though, there is no ticket staff - does the tram driver
have a reader? How can I prove my innocence on a tram?


Not so much of a problem on the tube as the gate swinging open is a good
indication that you've touched in correctly.

However, I have had much trouble on the DLR and buses with readers.

If you don't touch in properly by laying your card flat on the reader for a
second then
sometimes the card registers and sometimes it doesn't.

It may beep and and give you an error message
But it sometimes register anyway.
If you touch in again to make sure then more often than not you end up with
an unresolved journey.
And unresolved journey are of course a pain. Especially in non tube areas
like the DLR where you have to phone
Oyster customer services.

If you don't touch in again and walk on then theres no way of knowing if you
have a valid ticket.

The DLR crew do use their initiative and give you the benefit of the doubt
in most cases.
However the heavy handed revenue inspectors really don't care. They are in
the business of collecting names and addresses and prosecuting.

It happens to me at least once a week.
Solution I can see on the DLR is if you touch in twice at the same reader
then the system should realise this

"Clive Dennis" wrote in message
oups.com...
On the tram, though, there is no ticket staff - does the tram driver
have a reader? How can I prove my innocence on a tram?

In this country you are innocent until proved guilty.
You don't have to prove your innocence. The prosecutor has to prove
your guilt - beyond reasonable doubt.

I have no doubt Tfl would be delighted if the reverse were true.

Roger

londoncityslicker wrote:
"Clive Dennis" wrote in message
oups.com...
After I board the bus, once the bus has left the stop, when the driver
gets to the next stop, can I ask the driver if my Oyster Card was
validated?

Can I request a receipt for my Oyster validation from the driver's
Wayfarer?

On the tram, though, there is no ticket staff - does the tram driver
have a reader? How can I prove my innocence on a tram?


Not so much of a problem on the tube as the gate swinging open is a good
indication that you've touched in correctly.

However, I have had much trouble on the DLR and buses with readers.

If you don't touch in properly by laying your card flat on the reader for a
second then
sometimes the card registers and sometimes it doesn't.

It may beep and and give you an error message
But it sometimes register anyway.
If you touch in again to make sure then more often than not you end up with
an unresolved journey.
And unresolved journey are of course a pain. Especially in non tube areas
like the DLR where you have to phone
Oyster customer services.

If you don't touch in again and walk on then theres no way of knowing if you
have a valid ticket.

The DLR crew do use their initiative and give you the benefit of the doubt
in most cases.
However the heavy handed revenue inspectors really don't care. They are in
the business of collecting names and addresses and prosecuting.

It happens to me at least once a week.
Solution I can see on the DLR is if you touch in twice at the same reader
then the system should realise this

Actually the oyster phone line is bloody useless. I live in a DLR area
but with no tube stations nearby. The "helpline" cannot resolve
unresolved journies meaning I have to go to a tube station and cannot
use my Oyster card in the meantime - meaning I have to pay normal cash
rates! There are some serious problems with Oyster pre-paid for those
not living near a tube station that TFL are just ignoring. As per
normal us Londoners not living near a tube station get a second rate
transport service....