Gavin Hamilton wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:46:55 -0000, "TKD" wrote:


"Gavin Hamilton" wrote in message
. ..



I was thinking of large parts of Surrey, namely Weybridge, Walton on
Thames etc, and the likes of Watford and Denham, all of which fall
inside the M25. Not all of these can be described as having a net
effect of zero...........

I still don't see how or why those places could move from the South East
England or East of England regions to the London region without giving
the residents the same voting rights as those already in the London region?
There isn't any argument, benefit or precedent to support such a thing.



If Ken wants Greater London to use the M25 as THE boundary he will
have to include those areas and, I suspect, the political forces will
not want upset the current cosy voting pattern - god forbid that the
blue rinses of Walton & Weybridge should have a say in the election
of the Greater London assembly and the mayor of London. I can just
imagine some candidate saying (to paraphrase Patrica Hughit -
patronising old bag) "this electorate is too middle class".

File under "good idea - not politically acceptable".


Maybe if they did, Ken could extend the Congestion Charge Zone to
everything within the M25 ? (and maybe include the anti-clockwise
carriageway of the M25 :-)

On 10 Nov 2005 13:11:43 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

[originally posted to uk.transport.london ]
[ommitted to cross-post this to uk.railway ]
[pls reply to *this* post- sorry for the mess]


I'm surprised that no-one has referred to this yet, though it doesn't
seem to appear anywhere on the Southern (or any other) website(s).

I've seen a poster at a Southern station, which has been there at least
a week, that states that from 2 January 2006, when new fares are
introduced, the London's Zone 6 will be extended to include the
following stations to the south of Croydon and Sutton:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
Whyteleafe, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
Upper Wharlingham

Does this mean that passengers from these stations can no longer get
railcard discounts on (off peak) travel cards and other journeys
within the zones? If so, they will notice a significant fare
increase.
--
Peter Lawrence

"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
Whyteleafe, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
Upper Wharlingham

Does this mean that passengers from these stations can no longer get
railcard discounts on (off peak) travel cards and other journeys
within the zones? If so, they will notice a significant fare
increase.

No, I don't think so. Why should it mean that? Are you suggesting that
railcard discounts are not available within the zones?

John Salmon wrote:
"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
Whyteleafe, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
Upper Wharlingham

Does this mean that passengers from these stations can no longer get
railcard discounts on (off peak) travel cards and other journeys
within the zones? If so, they will notice a significant fare
increase.

No, I don't think so. Why should it mean that? Are you suggesting that
railcard discounts are not available within the zones?

IIRC not on Oyster.

--
Paul

DERWENT Zone 6 conquers ten further Southern stations...
Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:59:18 GMT, "Peter Lawrence"


On 10 Nov 2005 13:11:43 -0800, "Mizter T" wrote:

[originally posted to uk.transport.london ]
[ommitted to cross-post this to uk.railway ]
[pls reply to *this* post- sorry for the mess]


I'm surprised that no-one has referred to this yet, though it doesn't
seem to appear anywhere on the Southern (or any other) website(s).

I've seen a poster at a Southern station, which has been there at least
a week, that states that from 2 January 2006, when new fares are
introduced, the London's Zone 6 will be extended to include the
following stations to the south of Croydon and Sutton:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
Whyteleafe, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
Upper Wharlingham

Does this mean that passengers from these stations can no longer get
railcard discounts on (off peak) travel cards and other journeys
within the zones? If so, they will notice a significant fare
increase.

No. Railcards still apply, and the majority of people will see ticket
prices reduced (unless the January price rises are more than 20%).

PRAR
--
http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
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DERWENT Zone 6 conquers ten further Southern stations...
Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:47:35 +0000, Paul


John Salmon wrote:
"Peter Lawrence" wrote

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner
Whyteleafe, Whyteleaf South and Caterham
Upper Wharlingham

Does this mean that passengers from these stations can no longer get
railcard discounts on (off peak) travel cards and other journeys
within the zones? If so, they will notice a significant fare
increase.

No, I don't think so. Why should it mean that? Are you suggesting that
railcard discounts are not available within the zones?

IIRC not on Oyster.

Oyster is a waste of time on NR at the moment.

PRAR
--
http://www.i.am/prar/ and http://prar.fotopic.net/
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. --Dick Cavett
Please reply to the newsgroup. That is why it exists.
NB Anti-spam measures in force
- If you must email me use the Reply to address and not

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:12:44 -0000, "TKD" wrote:


If Ken wants Greater London to use the M25 as THE boundary he will
have to include those areas and, I suspect, the political forces will
not want upset the current cosy voting pattern - god forbid that the
blue rinses of Walton & Weybridge should have a say in the election
of the Greater London assembly and the mayor of London. I can just
imagine some candidate saying (to paraphrase Patrica Hughit -
patronising old bag) "this electorate is too middle class".

File under "good idea - not politically acceptable".


For a start it will not be his decision, it will be made at Westminster level.
I'm not entirely sure why he wants to extend the border as it doesn't make
much political sense for him personally as most of the newly added London
electorate would be unlikely to vote for him, preferring a low-tax, low-spend,
"everyone have as many cars as you like" Tory mayor. The other problem will
be the local government districts which will need to be redrawn. There will
be small chunks left of districts outside the M25 that will need to absorbed
into some other entity. Which perhaps uncovers his real intention. If the
boundary is extended the existing London Boroughs will need to be reformed
and he has already suggested larger "super boroughs". The intention is
possibly to eliminate such thorns in his side as the City of Westminster London
Borough Council. Statue of Mandela anyone?


Which is more or less what I said...............

G

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:42:33 +0000 (UTC), matt
wrote:

Gavin Hamilton wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2005 21:46:55 -0000, "TKD" wrote:


"Gavin Hamilton" wrote in message
...



I was thinking of large parts of Surrey, namely Weybridge, Walton on
Thames etc, and the likes of Watford and Denham, all of which fall
inside the M25. Not all of these can be described as having a net
effect of zero...........

I still don't see how or why those places could move from the South East
England or East of England regions to the London region without giving
the residents the same voting rights as those already in the London region?
There isn't any argument, benefit or precedent to support such a thing.



If Ken wants Greater London to use the M25 as THE boundary he will
have to include those areas and, I suspect, the political forces will
not want upset the current cosy voting pattern - god forbid that the
blue rinses of Walton & Weybridge should have a say in the election
of the Greater London assembly and the mayor of London. I can just
imagine some candidate saying (to paraphrase Patrica Hughit -
patronising old bag) "this electorate is too middle class".

File under "good idea - not politically acceptable".


Maybe if they did, Ken could extend the Congestion Charge Zone to
everything within the M25 ? (and maybe include the anti-clockwise
carriageway of the M25 :-)


I was under the impression that the M25 was already subject to parking
charges already :-) Actually, although I only live 40ish miles from
London I haven't been inside the M25 for about 18 months.

G

In article , Gavin Hamilton
writes
If Ken wants Greater London to use the M25 as THE boundary he will
have to include those areas and, I suspect, the political forces will
not want upset the current cosy voting pattern - god forbid that the
blue rinses of Walton & Weybridge should have a say in the election
of the Greater London assembly and the mayor of London. I can just
imagine some candidate saying (to paraphrase Patrica Hughit -
patronising old bag) "this electorate is too middle class".

Um, the whole *idea* of the GLC was to bring lots of Tory areas into the
voting of the London County Council and thus eliminate this Labour
stronghold.

I'm sure Ken knows just how bad an idea *that* was.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Tel: +44 20 8495 6138 (work) | Web: http://www.davros.org
Fax: +44 870 051 9937 | Work:
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Mizter T wrote:

I'm surprised that no-one has referred to this yet, though it doesn't
seem to appear anywhere on the Southern (or any other) website(s).

I've only just seen this, despite having been to Sutton station twice in the
last week.

I've seen a poster at a Southern station, which has been there at least
a week, that states that from 2 January 2006, when new fares are
introduced, the London's Zone 6 will be extended to include the
following stations to the south of Croydon and Sutton:

Banstead and Epsom Downs
Chipstead, Kingswood, Tadworth and Tattenham Corner

One of the side effects is that a Travelcard holder can now go for a walk on
Epsom Downs and go between the two terminuses.

From a personal point of view I *think* Epsom Downs is the closer station to
my parents home, but it's not entirely clear (not least because there's
quite a bit of doubling back to get to the station itself at the end of the
estate) but I've hardly ever used it, taking Epsom instead. (Also I recall
that the Epsom-Sutton fare is or was cheaper than the Epsom Downs-Sutton
fare.) Now that Epsom Downs doesn't require a ticket extension on my
travelcard this may well change my travel pattern when visiting. I wonder
also if this will lead to others using Epsom Downs more for visiting the
College end of Epsom.

I've grouped them together for ease of reference. They all appear on
the London Connections map [1], and (logically) they're all outside the
Greater London boundary in the county of Surrey.

Have the district councils had any input on this? Despite the name, the
Epsom Downs line is pretty much in Reigate & Banstead (okay it's the border
in places).