Richard J. wrote:
T.S. Cordiner typed:

I am trying to understand what the real issue is and, other
than the flat fare which I accept is a big difference, how NYC
manages to operate a subway safely without the gateline staff.


And the real issue keeps getting explained to you! NYC manages to
operate without gateline staff because, as in Paris, the exit gates
don't require a ticket.

On a related note, the RER in Paris DOES have ticketed exit gates, and I
have been "locked in" unable to exit with no staff around to help.

Amazingly, I did survive the ordeal though! :-)

Endymion Ponsonby-Withermoor III writes:

David of Broadway wrote:
is only open rush hours, when an S/A is on duty. At other times I
have to walk an extra block on the street to the full-time entrance,
even though I have no use for the S/A. (In fact, several years ago I
got into frequent arguments with the S/A there about the exact opening
time of that entrance. The sign said 6:30, but after several
arguments it came to light that the S/A's schedule said 6:35, and I
needed to catch a train that arrived between those times.)

Just as a matter of interest, why do you need to get a train at
between 06:30 and 06:35 ? Couldn't you get one at say 06:37
and use the nearer entrance ? Can't say I've ever gone to a metro
station with a specific five-minute window in mind: I just get the
first appropriate train.

Fair enough question (since it is kind of unusual). At that time of
day the 1 still runs pretty close to schedule, and that train was the
last one that would get me to Times Square in time for the 6:45 Q
local, where I would prepare my lecture notes until it got to the last
stop at Brighton Beach at about 7:30, where I would join the large
crowd waiting to cram onto the unreliable B1 bus and would hopefully
make it to my 8:00 class on time.

If I missed that 1 train, I would end up on the first Q express of the
day, which got me to Brighton Beach just a few minutes later, but (a)
the train was more crowded, making it more difficult for me to be
productive, and (b) the crowds waiting for the bus were much larger,
decreasing the likelihood that I'd be able to fit onto the next few
buses.

Both my work schedule and the subway routes have changed since then
(late 2003). Also, I've taken to driving between the subway and work
on most days, since the buses are so unpredictable (although, to be
fair, my car has been in the shop this week and the bus has been
fine). Now I take the 1 to 59th Street - Columbus Circle for the B to
either Sheepshead Bay or Brighton Beach. But the B runs on nominal
10-minute headways, and the tower that controls its merges and
diverges along Central Park West is staffed by a bunch of monkeys who
don't know how to read a schedule, so it's not uncommon for one train
to leave Columbus Circle a few minutes early and for its follower to
leave a few minutes late -- so I aim to catch a specific B train but
assume that there's a good chance that I'll miss it. (A few weeks
ago, when I already left home a bit later than usual, one B train ran
at least five minutes early -- I know that because that's when I got
there, and it never showed up. Then its follower was late and lost
more time on the way into Brooklyn, arriving at its terminal a full 11
minutes late. I should have gotten to Brighton Beach at 8:46;
instead, I got there at 9:07, which didn't leave me quite enough time
to get to my 9:10 class.) And when a B train is taken out of service,
leading to a 20-minute gap, there are rarely station announcements
informing the passengers waiting for the B, even though there are
alternate routes to all stations served by the B. (Then again,
sometimes the people making the announcements are a bit confused.
Here's one gem I heard on Tuesday at 34th Street: "Ladies and
gentlemen, after an earlier incident, Brooklyn-bound B as in Bravo
service is running. As an alternative for Brooklyn-bound B as in
Bravo service, take a Brooklyn-bound D as in Delta train to Pacific
Street - Atlantic Avenue and transfer to a Coney Island-bound Q as in
Quincy train." First of all, why do we need an alternative if the
train is running now? And second, considering that the Q stops in a
different part of the very same 34th Street station complex, why not
just walk upstairs and get it right away instead of riding the D into
Brooklyn? It turns out that, while the B was running, the first B
train wouldn't reenter service until the next stop, West 4th Street.
The /correct/ advice would have been to take an F or V train to West
4th Street and transfer there to the B.)

Wow. That's a long paragraph. Sorry.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY

James Farrar wrote:


You appear to have got into trouble because you inserted your ticket
before the person in front of you had passed through the gate.

That's your fault.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

And at very crowded stations if people didn't do that it would take
twice as long to clear the passengers making the overcrowding even
worse, not to mention the abuse from the passengers behind complaining
about the hold ups or people pushing in. That would be LUL's fault. Do
you have any suggestions?

Kevin

How can it be LULs fault that people push in the queue and take your ticket
because you allow them to do so.?
Do you allow peopel to walk up to you in the street and take things from
you?
It happens quite regularly. The naughty people dont leave the barrier until
you have put your ticket in, they take it, go sell it and buy drugs. Or
alcohol.
Dont put it in until the person in front has left.

Or buy an Oyster. Problem solved.

Mal

wrote in message
oups.com...

James Farrar wrote:


You appear to have got into trouble because you inserted your ticket
before the person in front of you had passed through the gate.

That's your fault.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

And at very crowded stations if people didn't do that it would take
twice as long to clear the passengers making the overcrowding even
worse, not to mention the abuse from the passengers behind complaining
about the hold ups or people pushing in. That would be LUL's fault. Do
you have any suggestions?

Kevin

On 25 Nov 2005 00:44:13 -0800, wrote:


James Farrar wrote:


You appear to have got into trouble because you inserted your ticket
before the person in front of you had passed through the gate.

That's your fault.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

And at very crowded stations if people didn't do that it would take
twice as long to clear the passengers making the overcrowding even
worse

No, not significantly. You should be able to put the ticket in and
take the ticket out without breaking stride. If you can't do that due
to overcrowding, it's the overcrowding that's slowing you down and
waiting for the person in front to clear the gate isn't going to slow
you down further.

--
James Farrar
. @gmail.com

Mal wrote:
How can it be LULs fault that people push in the queue and take your ticket
because you allow them to do so.?
Do you allow peopel to walk up to you in the street and take things from
you?
It happens quite regularly. The naughty people dont leave the barrier until
you have put your ticket in, they take it, go sell it and buy drugs. Or
alcohol.
Dont put it in until the person in front has left.

Or buy an Oyster. Problem solved.

Mal

I think that you are confusing two separate issues. Do I allow people
to take things off of me in the street, no I don't.
I am required by LUL to put my ticket into the gate it is therefore out
of my control. Note that there is nothing written on the gate to say
they you should only insert the ticket after the previous person has
removed theirs. If that is the case then LUL should say so.
Alternatively if you should not insert your ticket until the previous
ticket is removed then the mechanism should prevent you from doing so.
Better luck next time.

Kevin

wrote:


I think that you are confusing two separate issues. Do I allow people
to take things off of me in the street, no I don't.
I am required by LUL to put my ticket into the gate it is therefore
out
of my control. Note that there is nothing written on the gate to say
they you should only insert the ticket after the previous person has
removed theirs. If that is the case then LUL should say so.
Alternatively if you should not insert your ticket until the previous
ticket is removed then the mechanism should prevent you from doing so.
Better luck next time.

Is there a sign telling you that you're allowed to breathe, or are you
simply incapable of looking after yourself and need somone to wipe your arse
for you?

Mal wrote:

When was last time?


I don't remember the exact dates (although I presume my complaints were
logged when, for example, I reported an unattended bag at East Putney
but actually reported it at South Kensington - complete with lack of
staff explanation)

Due to the continuing problems on the Wimbledon line and the
unpredictability of journey times I have been cycling most days for the
past 5 months so I am unlikely to see this happen often enough to get a
good picture of exactly how frequently it happens.

Chris

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:25:07 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:



Richard J. wrote:
T.S. Cordiner typed:

I am trying to understand what the real issue is and, other
than the flat fare which I accept is a big difference, how NYC
manages to operate a subway safely without the gateline staff.


And the real issue keeps getting explained to you! NYC manages to
operate without gateline staff because, as in Paris, the exit gates
don't require a ticket.

On a related note, the RER in Paris DOES have ticketed exit gates, and I
have been "locked in" unable to exit with no staff around to help.

and parts of the Paris suburban network that are not on the RER are also
gated, It is entirely possible to be trapped inside these gatelines.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 01:25:07 +0000, Dave Newt
wrote:



Richard J. wrote:

T.S. Cordiner typed:


I am trying to understand what the real issue is and, other
than the flat fare which I accept is a big difference, how NYC
manages to operate a subway safely without the gateline staff.


And the real issue keeps getting explained to you! NYC manages to
operate without gateline staff because, as in Paris, the exit gates
don't require a ticket.

On a related note, the RER in Paris DOES have ticketed exit gates, and I
have been "locked in" unable to exit with no staff around to help.


and parts of the Paris suburban network that are not on the RER are also
gated, It is entirely possible to be trapped inside these gatelines.

My point being that they seem to manage OK.