on the 159 anyway.

timetable for special operations on Thursday the 8th are on line at
http://www.lots.org.uk/pdf/159081205.pdf

Paul

"Paul" Paul @whydoyoucare.co.uk wrote in message
...
on the 159 anyway.

timetable for special operations on Thursday the 8th are on line at
http://www.lots.org.uk/pdf/159081205.pdf

Looks good, shame that work means I an unable to attend. Thankfully I did
make the 38 send off though.

But wait, what is this utter nonsense about no photography on the 159's on
the last two days? Under what bylaw (and more importantly why?) is this
little number being dreamed up?

Regards
John M Upton

nJMUpton2000 securitynovels @ freeuk.com typed:
"Paul" Paul @whydoyoucare.co.uk wrote in message
...
on the 159 anyway.

timetable for special operations on Thursday the 8th are on line at
http://www.lots.org.uk/pdf/159081205.pdf

Looks good, shame that work means I an unable to attend. Thankfully
I did make the 38 send off though.

But wait, what is this utter nonsense about no photography on the
159's on the last two days? Under what bylaw (and more importantly
why?) is this little number being dreamed up?

It actually says that no *filming* is allowed on *any* 159 bus,
presumably meaning movies rather than still photography. Is this
perhaps a longstanding London Buses rule designed to prevent commercial
filming without payment of fees? The site quoting this is not a TfL
site, so it's not clear what TfL's view really is, or whether the rule
applies to movie equipment that doesn't actually use film.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

JMUpton2000 wrote:
"Paul" Paul @whydoyoucare.co.uk wrote in message
...
on the 159 anyway.

timetable for special operations on Thursday the 8th are on line at
http://www.lots.org.uk/pdf/159081205.pdf

Looks good, shame that work means I an unable to attend. Thankfully I did
make the 38 send off though.

But wait, what is this utter nonsense about no photography on the 159's on
the last two days? Under what bylaw (and more importantly why?) is this
little number being dreamed up?

Regards
John M Upton

John, the LOTS site states:-

"filming on board any Route 159 bus has been specifically prohibited
and this restriction will be very strictly enforced."

Well, I don't know if they regard "filming" and synonymous with "taking
photographs".

I haven't seen any bylaw prohibiting either activity (I'm not saying
there isn't one, just that I have not seen it) but if it prohibits
"filming" then I would certainly argue that does not include "taking
photographs". And, since I use a small digital camera (about the size
of the cigarette pack) they wouldn't know the diference anyway.

I will certainly be treating this "prohibition" with the contempt that
it deserves. It seems that some small-minded people are intent on
ruining what will already be a very sad day for many of us.

So, TFL (or whicever amoeba is responsible for this "restriction") is
not only going to make its conductors redundant on 9th December, it is
also intent on creating conflict between them (on their melancholy last
day) and well-meaning enthusiasts and other Londoners who wish to
record their last Routemaster journeys by having this silly restriction
"strictly enforced". I only hope that the conductors, who will have
nothing whatsoever to gain by so enforcing, will also treat this
restriction with the contempt that it deserves. What will happen to
them if they don't? The sack?!

I filmed (quite unobtrusively) some of the activities on board some of
the final 38s, including an American film crew who brought champagne
and toasted the conductor, much to his amusement and joy. He thoroughly
enjoyed what, for him, was a rare moment of celebrity as well as his
last day of employment. No doubt the TFL twits (or whoever) have dreamt
up this restriction and its strict enforcement are of the Labourite Mr.
Wolfgang-ejecting killjoy persuasion, for whom the very idea of a
farewell celebration for our beloved Routemasters is a tasteless
anachronism harking back to the days of squires and serfs and best
obliterated in favour of the new wunderkind of the bendy variety.

I am already appalled that the L.T. Museum is treating this as a
money-making opportunity, and the cavalier way in which now 3 totally
different versions of when and where their "limited edition" EFE models
will be available is little short of scandalous. Even those of us who
are long-standing names on their mailing list have been misinformed, if
the latest LOTS announcement is correct, as to where these models will
be available.

Absolutely disgusted of Fulham,

Marc.

typed:
JMUpton2000 wrote:
"Paul" Paul @whydoyoucare.co.uk wrote in message
...
on the 159 anyway.

timetable for special operations on Thursday the 8th are on line at
http://www.lots.org.uk/pdf/159081205.pdf

Looks good, shame that work means I an unable to attend. Thankfully
I did make the 38 send off though.

But wait, what is this utter nonsense about no photography on the
159's on the last two days? Under what bylaw (and more importantly
why?) is this little number being dreamed up?

Regards
John M Upton

John, the LOTS site states:-

"filming on board any Route 159 bus has been specifically prohibited
and this restriction will be very strictly enforced."

Well, I don't know if they regard "filming" and synonymous with
"taking photographs".

I haven't seen any bylaw prohibiting either activity (I'm not saying
there isn't one, just that I have not seen it) but if it prohibits
"filming" then I would certainly argue that does not include "taking
photographs". And, since I use a small digital camera (about the size
of the cigarette pack) they wouldn't know the diference anyway.

I've just checked TfL's conditions of carriage which apply at least to
the Tube and buses, and the only reference to photography is this:

"4.5. For safety reasons, on our bus services, in the enclosed parts of
our bus stations and on London Underground you must not:
....
take flash photographs and/or use a tripod or other camera support
equipment;"

There is nothing about "filming" as distinct from taking still photos.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

wrote in message
ps.com...

Absolutely disgusted of Fulham,

Lots Road?

;-)

Ian

On 30 Nov 2005 13:54:40 -0800, "
wrote:

I am already appalled that the L.T. Museum is treating this as a
money-making opportunity, and the cavalier way in which now 3 totally
different versions of when and where their "limited edition" EFE models
will be available is little short of scandalous. Even those of us who
are long-standing names on their mailing list have been misinformed, if
the latest LOTS announcement is correct, as to where these models will
be available.

I'm sorry but this is completely over the top. The LT Museum shop have
arranged the models at the request of TfL. I see nothing wrong in a
souvenir of an event, no matter how sad, being made available. I assume
it was similarly outrageous for Stagecoach to produce mugs and T shirts
to commemorate the end of RMs on route 8? I suppose I am a member of
the evil anti RM brigade for having bought a mug? I imagine from your
viewpoint that I should be locked away in a mental hospital for having
bought a model of a bendy bus!

Also to be fair to the Museum Shop they published their intentions not a
finalised plan. As the notices in the shop and as published on the
british model buses website say the changes to arrangements have been
unavoidable. The intention was to use Streatham garage, they then tried
to establish something at Brixton Tram Shed and both proposals came to
naught. I suspect this is on safety grounds as the turning area at
Streatham is very busy and will be more so on the 8th and 9th while
Brixton Tram Shed is so close to the road as to be probably useless -
especially if Arriva are moving buses in and out at any point. What else
are they supposed to do? Where else on the 159 route can a temporary
sales stand be set up without blocking the highway or the pavement?

The shop is also relatively small and cannot hold huge stocks so only
doing two models now and one later is probably reflective of
practicalities and nothing else.

While you are obviously "disappointed" at the end of the RM there is no
need for ill founded hysteria.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul C,

I was not intending to criticise the Museum for producing a model per
se, but the fact that

(a) it is not being made available to its long-standing standing-order
customers, many of whom (for one reason or another) will not be able to
attend Streatham, Brixton or Covent Garden or wherever on 8th or 9th
December, and
(b) the fact that those who received their most recent mailing but who
have not seen the LOTS website or read this forum may needlessly and
fruitlessly be trekking to Streatham Garage, which is the only place,
their most recent mailing informed us, that these models would be
available.

I am ALL for commemorative souvenirs, the more the merrier, but they
should be WIDELY available, at location(s) WIDELY publicised (including
by mail order) and NOT in "limited editions" which will simply generate
money for the dealers.

Marc.

In message om,
" writes
Absolutely disgusted of Fulham,
I'm sorry, but you've made a mistake, this is U.K. Transport London, not
Woman's Weekly.
--
Clive

I think the whole way the end of normal RM operation is being handled
smacks of a split-personality within TfL. On the one hand let's run
specials and produce models, on the other 'ban' filming (supposedly)
and a sales stall on any part of the route. Similarly lets dress the
buses with dedicated posters as was done for trams and trolleybuses
(and RT's though internal only), but then phrase them in such a way
which undermines the whole historical significance of the event (i.e.
you can still ride on a Disney Routemaster which goes nowhere, links
nothing, and manages to avoid most of the traffic day on the 9H and 15H
so what's all the fuss about?) As for the lack of sales stall, it is
ridiculous that space could not be found, which after all need not have
taken up much more room than the sort of charity wallpaper table one
sees set up in shopping centres on a Sat afternoon. If not at BN or AK,
why not on the TfL-controlled Trafalgar Square, which is where the
Disney routes were launched and is served by all three remaining RM
routes? (And is made available for every other minority grievence group
it seems - which is presumably how enthusiasts are viewed?) I for one
will not have the time to divert off from the main events this Thu and
Fri to visit Covent Garden so risk not getting one or other of the
commemorative EFE's. As for perceived H&S risks which have been used to
surpress activity, god knows what these 'nannies' in TfL must make of
the scenes shot outside Barking garage in 1979, or at New Cross Depot
in 1952! No wonder they don't want film crews aboard, all those
'ordinary' Londoners, black, asian, cockney pensioners etc, saying how
much the hate OPO d/d's and bendies - not quite the 'right on' PC
message TfL expects. There will be a TfL press bus shadowing the last
159, no doubt with suitable reps from the disability rights mafia to
bless procedings, and where news management can be suitably spun. In
all this the Museum has to walk a tightrope betwen the two views for
fear of offending the TfL board should it be seen to ally to closely
with the pro-RM lobby.