David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Hmmm, I suppose that makes some sense. But why immediately
following a holiday weekend? Don't some people delay their
returns until after Bank Holiday? (An honest question -- as
an American, I don't know British travel customs. In the
U.S., lots of people extend their holiday weekends.) And,
aside from Bank Holiday in particular, doesn't travel drop
off substantially as September progresses?

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

Fair enough, if the work can't be done in two. Maybe a weekend plus
the adjoining Friday or Monday?

But then it wouldn't have given you such an interesting journey!
:-)
Seriously, have a good trip.

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Seriously, have a good trip.

Thanks!

What's funny is that, for all the fuss I'm making over the bus here in
London, that's exactly what I have to do at the New York end of the
trip (except that I'm not under a time constraint, which is really the
issue). We still don't have direct train service to any of our
airports -- the best we have is a shuttle service to nearby rail and
subway stations at an additional 2½ fares. (That's right -- we
have a flat $2 fare on our entire subway and bus system, including a
free transfer between bus and subway, but AirTrain JFK has its own $5
fare and doesn't honor or issue free transfers.) And once on the
subway, no matter which route I take, I need to transfer near the end
of the trip to get where I'm going.

In message . com, David
of Broadway writes

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer
lull. This week is probably the best option, after the holiday
peak and before the business traffic ramps up.

So wouldn't weekends several weeks from now be light?

Possibly, but how would that accommodate a 3-day closure before 17
September?

Fair enough, if the work can't be done in two. Maybe a weekend plus
the adjoining Friday or Monday?

Weekend closures are already booked up well into next year for normal
engineering works. Due to the T5 construction work, the site will have
only become ready in the last week or so (in fact, it may not even be
handed over until the day before we start reinstating signalling). LU
obviously want to restart services to T4 as soon as possible, with
September 2006 having already been given as the reopening date. That
would only give weekends of 2/3 September and 9/10 September to do this
work. As it needs 3 days that would encroach into the week at one end
or the other anyway. There is then the requirement for us to run some
trains round the loop in advance of the public reopening.

Also, many people travelling at weekend are less familiar with dealing
with alternative travel options, whereas those travelling in the week
tend to be more regular travellers.

All in all, I suspect this is already a very tight window and probably
the only opportunity to do it.

In any event, it's only the one station that's closed as there will be a
5 minute service into central London from Hatton Cross on all days.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
Also, many people travelling at weekend are less familiar with dealing
with alternative travel options, whereas those travelling in the week
tend to be more regular travellers.

In the Underground network as a whole, certainly. But to Heathrow
specifically, I doubt it.

In general, having to use alternative travel options is an
inconvenience to most. But when it comes to airports, passengers are
under time pressure and passengers are carrying luggage.

All in all, I suspect this is already a very tight window and probably
the only opportunity to do it.

Fair enough. It would have been nice if (a) TfL had informed the
airlines well in advance and (b) the airlines cared and were willing to
pass the information on to their customers. Had I known before booking
my flight, I would probably have flown out a day earlier to avoid the
issue.

In any event, it's only the one station that's closed as there will be a
5 minute service into central London from Hatton Cross on all days.

Sure, but it's a pretty important station, especially given the time
constraints and the luggage issues that I mentioned earlier.

In message .com,
David of Broadway writes

Fair enough. It would have been nice if (a) TfL had informed the
airlines well in advance and (b) the airlines cared and were willing to
pass the information on to their customers. Had I known before booking
my flight, I would probably have flown out a day earlier to avoid the
issue.

BAA (Who own Heathrow Airport) will have set the timescales as it's they
who are building the T5 extension. I'm sure they were fully in the loop
as to when this was likely to happen.

Perhaps LUL/TfL only had definite confirmation a few weeks ago that the
date would happen though? We only had confirmation at work about 3
weeks ago that the new timetable would happen on 17 September and there
were posters put up from then.

In any event, it's only the one station that's closed as there will be a
5 minute service into central London from Hatton Cross on all days.

Sure, but it's a pretty important station, especially given the time
constraints and the luggage issues that I mentioned earlier.

Having flown out of T4 myself a few months ago whilst this blockade was
on, I have to say the journey from Hatton Cross to T4 (and the one to
T123 would be similar) was no worse than the merry jaunt around
Amsterdam Schipol to change planes. It took me about 10 minutes extra
on my journey, hardly worth getting excited about in the great scheme of
things. YMMV.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

OK, I made it to the airport in one piece, but with some difficulties
that might or might not have been related to the line closure to Heathrow.

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

The shuttle bus was quite crowded, and the style of bus (2x2 seating
with wide, cushioned seats) was ill-suited for the job, although I don't
know if anything else was available. It took a long time to load the
bus, and then the ride itself took about 15 minutes. I wonder, did the
bus dispatcher continue to send out buses on their original schedule
even when no trains were arriving to fill them? There was only one bus
on the stand.

So I probably should have gotten off at Hounslow East for the 111, but I
didn't know that at the time. Eventually, announcements at Hounslow
Central advised passengers for Heathrow to backtrack to Hounslow East,
but by then trains were moving, so I stayed put.

Once at the airport (about an hour later than I would have gotten there
if everything had been running normally), I found that, much to my
surprise, there was no check-in line (excuse me, queue) for my airline.
So, after checking my bag, I had time to wander off and photograph
some buses. I also filled out a Customer Charter form (another concept
I'm not used to from New York) -- do I have a valid claim, and does the
voucher expire? (I'm sure I'll be back in London at some point, but I
have no idea when.)

If anybody would like to see these photos, they're at
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=38659

You can also follow the links to photos -- many transport-related --
from the rest of my three weeks in London, as well as lots more photos
(pretty much all transport-related) from my trip last year to Europe.
(The London portion of last year's trip isn't ready yet for public
consumption.)
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:
In message .com,
David of Broadway writes

Fair enough. It would have been nice if (a) TfL had informed the
airlines well in advance and (b) the airlines cared and were willing to
pass the information on to their customers. Had I known before booking
my flight, I would probably have flown out a day earlier to avoid the
issue.

BAA (Who own Heathrow Airport) will have set the timescales as it's they
who are building the T5 extension. I'm sure they were fully in the loop
as to when this was likely to happen.

True. Which makes the lack of information to intending airline
passengers even less excusable.

Perhaps LUL/TfL only had definite confirmation a few weeks ago that the
date would happen though? We only had confirmation at work about 3
weeks ago that the new timetable would happen on 17 September and there
were posters put up from then.

I first found out about it when I stumbled across TfL's planned outage
PDF. I don't remember exactly when that was, but it was some time
between when I booked my flight (in mid-July) and when I left for London
(on 6 August).

Granted, the PDF did say that it was subject to confirmation.

Having flown out of T4 myself a few months ago whilst this blockade was
on, I have to say the journey from Hatton Cross to T4 (and the one to
T123 would be similar) was no worse than the merry jaunt around
Amsterdam Schipol to change planes. It took me about 10 minutes extra
on my journey, hardly worth getting excited about in the great scheme of
things. YMMV.

Well, I can see a few major differences between the two outages:

1. If my A-Z is correct, it's a much shorter trip by road to T4 than to
T123.

2. T4 alone serves many fewer passengers than T123 combined. Some
potential T4 passengers might even have shifted to T123 airlines to
avoid the issue.

3. Some T4 passengers have been staying on the Tube to T123 and then
using Heathrow Express. Obviously, that isn't an option with this
week's outage.

4. The T4 outage has been going on for a while and is advertised on all
maps, including the ones on the trains. There weren't even any signs on
the trains about the T123 outage, so there was a good deal of passenger
confusion.

Also, I'd guess (correct me if I'm wrong) that you were traveling light.
I wasn't, and from the sizes of the bags on the bus, neither were many
others. I doubt your transfer at Amsterdam involved an unavoidable
climb up 33 steps with all of your luggage! (Yes, there were a few
porters, but not nearly enough for the crowd.)
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

Richard J. wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Also, on a different note, the email says that the bus will drop me
off at Terminal 2. How long a walk is it from there to Terminal 3?
Or is there another bus I should take?

It's around 5 to 10 minutes, all underground and much of it on
travolators. The LU shuttle bus drops off at T2, but if you catch a
285, say, it will take you to the central bus station, about half way
between T2 and T3.

The shuttle bus dropped me off right outside the central bus station,
essentially adjacent to the entrance to the Tube station. The walk was
short -- less than 5 minutes.

But I think it might have dropped me off in the wrong place, because we
had to push past a long queue of people waiting to board, and I thought
the drop-off and pick-up points were different.

Do you know which one is closer to the bus stop?

Same distance, because both converge on the same stairs into the ticket
hall. The bus station is right outside, and includes both the special
buses and the normal services.

The one at the back end was one-way down.

No. Business travel increases to normal levels after the summer lull.
This week is probably the best option, after the holiday peak and before
the business traffic ramps up.

Obviously, I can only speak for my flight, but I'd estimate that it was
at least 90% full, probably closer to 95%.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:08:02 GMT, David of Broadway
wrote:

OK, I made it to the airport in one piece, but with some difficulties
that might or might not have been related to the line closure to Heathrow.

Hooray ;-)

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

The points at Hatton Cross and Heathrow have been very problematic of
late. I expect there will be more to come when the line is reopened
tomorrow.

If anybody would like to see these photos, they're at
http://greenberger.no-ip.com/gallery...2_itemId=38659

You can also follow the links to photos -- many transport-related --
from the rest of my three weeks in London, as well as lots more photos
(pretty much all transport-related) from my trip last year to Europe.
(The London portion of last year's trip isn't ready yet for public
consumption.)

Some very nice pictures there from your travels. Brought back some
memories of several European cities that I've visited. Thanks for
posting the link.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

Everything was fine until Hounslow East, where we proceeded to sit in
the station for 20-25 minutes due to a signal failure at Hatton Cross.
Then the driver announced that the train would be returning to the West
End. (I will say, I very much enjoyed the driver's informal
announcements. Informal announcements are strictly forbidden here in
New York!)

I wonder if it was Mr Fitzgerald at the mic?

Afraid not - I'm annual leave for two weeks. Although, had it been me,
I would have made similar announcements - I do believe very much in
telling people what's going on (in plain speak too!), even if I haven't
an awful lot to tell them. I believe it to be reassuring.

Now we could have a discussion on all this 'everything is running fine'
rubbish

The points at Hatton Cross and Heathrow have been very problematic of
late. I expect there will be more to come when the line is reopened
tomorrow.

I imagine they're quite thankful we'll be opening the loop again in just
over two weeks.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)