David of Broadway wrote:

It accepted coins only. ATM's don't dispense coins.

Try .nl. Small stations have only ticket machines, that don't accept
notes. Nor do they accept credit cards, only Maestro debit cards (and
I don't know about UK Switch-Maestro cards as they are an odd system
that used to be UK only). There is a fine for boarding without a
ticket, and no exceptions unless the ticket machine was actually not
working (and you have to appeal that after the event).

This, notably, is not on local transport (where you can get a
Strippenkaart from lots of places, and you can pay the bus driver if
you prefer, though you'll pay extra for doing so, and he will take
notes if he has enough change). This is on the national rail system.

Bloody ridiculous.

(While in Prague, I visited the downtown Tesco. It was most incredibly
unlike any of the Tescos I came across in London.)

In what way, OOI? (Tesco stores abroad tend to be other chains
purchased by Tesco, so that might be why).

Neil

Stephen Farrow wrote:

Of course, the *real* challenge to a tourist would be figuring out bus
fares etc somewhere like Manchester, where there's a deregulated bus
service, multiple operators (sometimes on the same route), and no
standard overall fare structure.

True, though at least the ticket can be purchased from the driver, and
change will usually be given.

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
Stephen Farrow wrote:

Of course, the *real* challenge to a tourist would be figuring out bus
fares etc somewhere like Manchester, where there's a deregulated bus
service, multiple operators (sometimes on the same route), and no
standard overall fare structure.

True, though at least the ticket can be purchased from the driver, and
change will usually be given.

Yes; that gets more complicated when you try and buy a day pass. I quite
regularly, when I'm back home (Oldham, where I grew up), buy bus and
train daysavers; asking for one of these seems to confuse some bus
drivers, who don't always appear to know how to get the full range of
tickets they're meant to be able to sell out of the machine (and I'm not
talking about the smaller operators, either - I'm talking about First).
Since single, distance-based bus tickets in the area are now ludicrously
expensive, you'd think drivers would be properly trained in the range of
day tickets available (even bus-only tickets seem to cause confusion
with some drivers if you *don't* want the one that's only valid on First
services).

--

Stephen

It's never too late, as a wise person once said. I think it was Kylie.

Stephen Farrow wrote:
(even bus-only tickets seem to cause confusion
with some drivers if you *don't* want the one that's only valid on First
services).

This is likely a deliberate ploy by First, given that they tried to
withdraw the tickets from sale (and were duly kicked by GMPTE for doing
so).

Neil

Neil Williams wrote:
Stephen Farrow wrote:
(even bus-only tickets seem to cause confusion
with some drivers if you *don't* want the one that's only valid on First
services).

This is likely a deliberate ploy by First, given that they tried to
withdraw the tickets from sale (and were duly kicked by GMPTE for doing
so).

Ah. I didn't know that - I no longer live in the area (or even in the
UK). That makes sense.

Stephen

Neil Williams wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:

It accepted coins only. ATM's don't dispense coins.

Try .nl. Small stations have only ticket machines, that don't accept
notes. Nor do they accept credit cards, only Maestro debit cards (and
I don't know about UK Switch-Maestro cards as they are an odd system
that used to be UK only). There is a fine for boarding without a
ticket, and no exceptions unless the ticket machine was actually not
working (and you have to appeal that after the event).

Hardly a small station, but I ran into problems buying a train ticket at
Schiphol. Either I hadn't obtained cash yet or the machine didn't
accept bills/notes or I simply wanted to preserve my cash, but I
couldn't convince the machine to accept either my credit card or my ATM
card. (Could it be because we don't have chip-and-PIN here? I also had
trouble this year at the large Oyster machines in London, although the
small ones seemed to accept my card.)

So I waited in a long line at the ticket window and bought my ticket
there. I later realized that I was overcharged by €0.50, and I'm still
not sure why -- perhaps that was a surcharge for buying a ticket from a
human? As if I had a choice!

This, notably, is not on local transport (where you can get a
Strippenkaart from lots of places, and you can pay the bus driver if
you prefer, though you'll pay extra for doing so, and he will take
notes if he has enough change). This is on the national rail system.

When I got into Amsterdam, I asked at an information booth how to buy a
tram ticket, since I didn't see any ticket machines. He told me to just
buy one from the driver. He did /not/ mention the Strippenkaart option.
Granted, I should have done my own research in advance, but it would
been nice if the person at the information booth had given me some more
information.

In what way, OOI? (Tesco stores abroad tend to be other chains
purchased by Tesco, so that might be why).

I hope I offend anyone with my observations, but I've never seen such a
crowded supermarket. Customers were frantically stocking up, as though
they had a half hour to buy all the groceries they'd need for the next
three months. I was going to buy a souvenir (perhaps the Kroger-brand
instant oatmeal that dominated the American food section), but I changed
my mind when I saw the immensely long lines to pay.

I later read somewhere -- and I have no idea if this is accurate or not
-- that this Tesco was the only supermarket in Prague. So perhaps
people really do stock up for long periods, so they can avoid having to
make frequent trips to what is surely an inconvenient location for many
of them.

Oh, and there was a clothing store upstairs. Also Tesco.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

tkd ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

What happened to parents paying their childrens' way, then? Or, in
teenagers' cases, a paper round or Saturday job?

Not everyone in London is middle class.

Is the concept of getting a job to pay your own way a uniquely "middle
class" one, then?

Stephen Farrow wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Stephen Farrow wrote:
David of Broadway wrote:
Stephen Farrow wrote:
Arthur Figgis wrote:

I found Budapest airport a bit rude, as the transport information
desk
would only sell transport+museum passes to us phrasebook-wielding
tourists, but not the equivalent of a travel card, even though we
knew
what to ask for. They just don't sell 'em. There was some sort of
ticket machine, but it was OOU.

At one point, at LaGuardia airport in New York, it was possible to
buy an MTA "fun pass" (day pass) only from *one* newsstand - which
was helpfully located on the departures level, rather than in
arrivals. I've no idea whether or not this is still the case.

When was this? I doubt it's still the case, although I don't know
for sure.

About three years ago.

I'm surprised, then.

In any case, I was last at LGA in early 2004, but, having just been
assaulted on the M60 bus, I was more interested in obtaining ice than
in obtaining a MetroCard. (Really. My luggage brushed against
somebody's leg and he took out his aggression on my eye.)

But ever since the price jumped from $4 to $7, the Fun Pass has been
an incredibly bad deal for nearly everyone. What most people want
is a $10 pay-per-ride MetroCard; longer-term tourists might opt for
a $24 7-day unlimited MetroCard.

Which is what I've done every time since. That trip, though, I needed
a one-day pass - I was arriving in the morning (from Toronto),
meeting a friend in Midtown, heading over to Lincoln Center to do
some research at the Performing Arts Library, then heading to Penn
Station in the evening to catch a train out to Hofstra University,
where I was going to a conference. And, of course, I arrived without
exact change for the bus, and a cab to Manhattan was beyond my
graduate student budget. It was only by asking around in the terminal
that I got directed to the one newsstand that sold the Fun Pass.

If you remember, did you pay $4 or $7 for the Fun Pass? (The price
changed in 2003 -- May, I think it was.)

$4. This was March 2003. When I've been since, I've arrived at Newark
(often despite booking a flight to LaGuardia. I seem to encounter a
*lot* of flight cancellations when travelling to New York).

Ah, in that case you got a good deal.

Of course, the *real* challenge to a tourist would be figuring out bus
fares etc somewhere like Manchester, where there's a deregulated bus
service, multiple operators (sometimes on the same route), and no
standard overall fare structure.

Or Cambridge. I boarded a Cambridge Blue bus and the driver offered to
sell me a single for 1.00 or a return for £1.70. Since I knew I had to
get back, I bought the return.

For my return trip, I noticed that Cambridge Blue had shut down for the
evening, so I boarded a Stagecoach bus, and the driver laughed at me
when I showed him my ticket. And then he seemed annoyed when I pulled
out a £20 note to buy a Stagecoach ticket (as if I should have made sure
to hold onto enough change to buy a bus ticket that I had no idea I'd
have to buy).

Having just come from London, with its fare integration, on a National
Rail ticket that I was told would be accepted on either First Capital
Connect from King's Cross or on 'one' from Liverpool Street, this caught
me by surprise. But apparently it's London and National Rail that are
the exception, not the rule.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

What happened to parents paying their childrens' way, then? Or, in
teenagers' cases, a paper round or Saturday job?

Not everyone in London is middle class. By providing the travel
concession
as a universal benefit, children from disadvantaged backgrounds get to
travel free without the stigma of receiving a targeted or means tested
benefit. There are other positive externalities to getting young people
used
to using public transport on a regular basis which include the
environmental
impact.

Is the concept of getting a job to pay your own way a uniquely "middle
class" one, then?

No, it is uniquely middle class to begrudge people who are less fortunate
any assistance in bettering their situation. Lack of access to public
transport is one of the main causes of social exclusion. By providing free
transport, access is given to education and other services (without stigma)
and it ensures that money earned "to pay your own way" can be used to for
things like food and heating.

tkd ) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

What happened to parents paying their childrens' way, then? Or, in
teenagers' cases, a paper round or Saturday job?

Not everyone in London is middle class. By providing the travel
concession as a universal benefit, children from disadvantaged
backgrounds get to travel free without the stigma of receiving a
targeted or means tested benefit. There are other positive
externalities to getting young people used to using public transport on
a regular basis which include the environmental impact.

Is the concept of getting a job to pay your own way a uniquely
"middle class" one, then?

No, it is uniquely middle class to begrudge people who are less
fortunate any assistance in bettering their situation.

Who's begrudging anybody anything?