On 13 Sep 2006 01:33:19 -0700, "James" wrote:


My memory is that three or four years ago, the single bus fare in Epsom
& Ewell was 70p. Thanks to the corrupt Labour government giving Mr
Livingstone powers of taxation without representation, he's now made it
£4.

Err no he hasn't. A single fare is £1.50 in cash. I fail to see how
you can possibly get to £4 - even with the 2007 fares for a *single*
fare.

Note that Mr Livingstone has not made any way of topping up an
Oyster card available at any location more than 100yds in from the
boundary with the Royal Borough of Kingston-upon-Thames.

Mr Livingstone and his transport authority don't have jurisdiction
beyond the boundary. They also cannot force newsagents to become ticket
stops nor can they force TOCs to convert their ticket machines. This is
a commercial arrangement and there must be limits on how far public
funds are used.

You could quite easily get an Oyster card set for auto top on bus and
then you would never need to seek out an agent or station.

Seeing as Oyster isn't valid on the K9 and K10 (and these routes have
sensible distance-based fares still), it would be very easy to extend
the same principle to the 406, 418, and 467. With a little re-routing,
the 293 and 470 could receive similar treatment.

The K9 and K10 have been replaced by Epsom Buses anyway and don't run to
Kingston. I note you are quite happy to suggest that you keep the TfL
provided bus services but want to pay lower fares for them. Perhaps the
alternative would be that they are all withdrawn by TfL - why should
they provide much higher quality services to Surrey when Surrey County
Council consistently cuts back its bus network at every opportunity? At
least then the cross boundary service provision would be the same in
Surrey as it is for Herts, Bucks, Essex and Kent - i.e. non existent.

You don't know when you are well off.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On 13 Sep 2006 00:12:20 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:


You do. I do. But then we are clued up about transport, and we both
read and post to a newsgroup that discusses it in depth. Most people
mainly travel by car, or by local bus on which they just buy single
fares, or maybe a weekly. It is *not* obvious to them that London
would be any different.

That is the key. "Everyone" in Britain knows you buy bus tickets from
the driver. When visiting London you get a day travelcard, except you
can't on Oyster, so bang goes that idea.

PAYG just shouts complex - look how people here describe troubles
getting through places like London Bridge with it.

....

Come on - there is a limit to what any of us can expect in terms of how
well we are treated when we arrive in a foreign land for all sorts of
issues.

Agreed. However, it is not reasonable to rip people off in the way the
gbp4 single fare does. Even the tourist cards of which you speak
aren't, IMX, as ridiculous.

I found Budapest airport a bit rude, as the transport information desk
would only sell transport+museum passes to us phrasebook-wielding
tourists, but not the equivalent of a travel card, even though we knew
what to ask for. They just don't sell 'em. There was some sort of
ticket machine, but it was OOU.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

wrote:
Yet still the most popular with visitors...!

It's not like they have a choice :-)

Well true... but I was actually referring to the recent survey which
seemed to conclude that although London's transport system was
considered the most expensive among major cities, it was also the most
popular amongst them.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
I think I must be some sort of freak because I take a few minutes to
check out the transport and ticket options for anywhere that I am
visiting. I then try to understand - even through a poor understanding
of most European languages - where I might be able to buy the ticket
that looks like the best option. This is done via a combination of a
decent guide book and the Internet.

I can't speak Italian but I managed to get a 7 day ticket, when I
visited Rome last year, which I made a financial loss on but I had the
freedom of the public transport network. I certainly had no desire to
find a news stand or tobacco place every time I wanted to catch a bus -
crazy! In Berlin I got a 3 day card at the Airport and happily whizzed
here and there. None of these tickets were available via machines - I
had to find a human being to sell them to me.

I don't think that's strange at all, Paul. I do it all the time myself
when I visit Germany (which is getting to be a rather regular
occurrence).

I'm happy to get a period pass that covers everything even though it may
be a bit more expensive - saves all that hassle trying to speak foreign
if you get 'gripped'.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

In message om, Neil
Williams writes
Paul G wrote:

How about encouraging young people to use, become confident with and
perhaps even enjoy using public transport rather than become accustomed
to always travelling everywhere in an inefficient congestion causing
car? It probably very fair given that all the young people (i.e.
students) concerned don't earn money! Some social justice.

What happened to parents paying their childrens' way, then?
Dunno Taxes went up? Or didn't go up enough? [or both]



Or, in
teenagers' cases, a paper round or Saturday job?
I'd be quite surprised if there were enough newspaper rounds to pay for
all 11-16 years old to provide themselves with enough bus fares.

--
Paul G
Typing from Barking

On 12 Sep 2006 09:14:29 -0700, "
wrote:

Well, at least transport in London is still THE MOST!

THE MOST expensive in Europe

and

THE MOST outdated in Europe

:-S

You clearly haven't been to many European cities then.

On 11 Sep 2006 23:54:45 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

Dave Arquati wrote:

-- via Zone 1 singles from £3 to £4 (!)
-- bus singles from £1.50 to £2

Now that really is taking the ****. Why don't they just abolish cash
fares if that's what they want to do? It's nothing but an underhand
and dishonest tourist tax.

It's only a tax on stupid tourists. Anyone visiting a different city,
especially those from overseas where English is not their first
language, is likely to bring with them a guide book or do some
internet research before they set off. I certainly always do, and that
research always includes checking out the public transport options and
fares in my destination city.

If there really are any tourists that just turn up somewhere where
they don't speak the language without the sense to read the key points
of a guidebook / leaflet / inflight magazine and check for basics like
how to travel around the place, I'm fine with them paying a bit extra.

You also ignore the fact that typically newly arrived tourists come
with a huge pile of large denomination notes or travellers cheques.
Quite how you expect them to fit those into Oyster machines is beyond
me. Do you see what I'm saying? The people you're bleating about are
*extremely* likely to go to a tube station ticket office (e.g. the one
at Heathrow, Gatwick or a major train station) first because it's
probably the only place they can spend the large notes they've got
anyway.

On 12 Sep 2006 09:29:06 -0700, "Neil Williams"
wrote:

Remember that barriers are, in
the first place, foreign to much of Europe, let alone further afield.


??? No they're not. Paris, Stockholm, Budapest, New York, Sydney,
Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok- the metro systems in these and many
many other cities - in fact I'd go so far as to say most cities of the
world - have barriers.

I'd put money on very few foreign travellers managing to get to London
without ever having seen a barrier on a metro system.

Arthur Figgis wrote:

I found Budapest airport a bit rude, as the transport information desk
would only sell transport+museum passes to us phrasebook-wielding
tourists, but not the equivalent of a travel card, even though we knew
what to ask for. They just don't sell 'em. There was some sort of
ticket machine, but it was OOU.

At one point, at LaGuardia airport in New York, it was possible to buy
an MTA "fun pass" (day pass) only from *one* newsstand - which was
helpfully located on the departures level, rather than in arrivals. I've
no idea whether or not this is still the case.

--

Stephen

Poems. Always a sign of pretentious inner turmoil.

Kev wrote:
Yes, great if you have Oyster. Why don't they just put signs up at
Heathrow and on the boundary of London saying **** off if you are a low
life visitor we don't want you in London.

This recent visitor has not one but /two/ Oysters: one from Notting Hill
Gate last summer, one from Heathrow T123 this summer.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA