OK I get your point.

But here's a solution that would work in the middle ground: still charge to
dissuade the fraudsters, but not as draconian as the £4 penalty.

How about, rather than being charged the £4 on top of your other daily
usage, it is cappable, ie the most you will be charged is (from 2007) £6.20
TOTAL which is the 1-6 cap rate.

That means that if someone goes from Plaistow to Mile End and forgets to
touch in or touch out they get charged £4, and any subsequent journeys
(including subsequent incomplete journeys that day) add to the amount until
a cap of £6.20

As it stands at the moment, the user will be charged £4 (or £8 if he/she
does it twice) and then on top of that could be charged £5.20 even if
he/she never goes further out than zone 3.

To make the cap £6.20 if there is one or more incomplete journeys would
keep most people happy.

Can you disagree with that?

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:20:56 -0600, Tristán White wrote:

OK I get your point.

But here's a solution that would work in the middle ground: still charge to
dissuade the fraudsters, but not as draconian as the £4 penalty.

How about, rather than being charged the £4 on top of your other daily
usage, it is cappable, ie the most you will be charged is (from 2007) £6.20
TOTAL which is the 1-6 cap rate.

That means that if someone goes from Plaistow to Mile End and forgets to
touch in or touch out they get charged £4, and any subsequent journeys
(including subsequent incomplete journeys that day) add to the amount until
a cap of £6.20

The problem with that is if you haven't reached the daily cap, and
you're starting a journey that would take you up to the cap, and the
barriers are open, you can avoid touching in, in the hope that the
barriers will also be open at the other end and you get a free
journey. Even if they turn out not to be, and you pick up a £4 charge,
you won't be paying any more than you should have paid anyway.

On Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:20:56 -0600, "Tristán White"
wrote:

OK I get your point.

But here's a solution that would work in the middle ground: still charge to
dissuade the fraudsters, but not as draconian as the £4 penalty.

How about, rather than being charged the £4 on top of your other daily
usage, it is cappable, ie the most you will be charged is (from 2007) £6.20
TOTAL which is the 1-6 cap rate.

That means that if someone goes from Plaistow to Mile End and forgets to
touch in or touch out they get charged £4, and any subsequent journeys
(including subsequent incomplete journeys that day) add to the amount until
a cap of £6.20

As it stands at the moment, the user will be charged £4 (or £8 if he/she
does it twice) and then on top of that could be charged £5.20 even if
he/she never goes further out than zone 3.

To make the cap £6.20 if there is one or more incomplete journeys would
keep most people happy.

Can you disagree with that?

Yes I can. There should be no perceived benefit from not validating. As
soon as there is some benefit from not complying with the rules then
some people will exploit the weakness. If you fail to validate then the
consequences of that should not be incorporated into the capping system.
The only exceptions would be where the equipment to validate cards is
not working or where there is some emergency or serious service
disruption that passengers can do nothing about. In those cases they
should be held blameless.

I know you (and many others) don't agree with my position on the £4
maximum fare so let's agree to differ.

I shall probably tempt fate by saying this but I have not noticed an
increase in people having issues with their Oyster cards or adverse
publicity since the change was implemented. Perhaps people are now
getting used to the system? ducks for cover

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Paul Corfield wrote in
:

Yes I can. There should be no perceived benefit from not validating.
SNIP

Well, for people not using zones further than 5, or within 1, would
certainly be dissuaded from not validating, as their ordinary cap would be
lower than £6.20

And they'd still be charged (albeit cappable) £4 for their incomplete
journey, which would be more than most single journeys, so it would
dissuade those only wishing to do one journey.

In fact, the ONLY ones who would see no difference would be those living in
zone 6 and going to zone 1 and back.

asdf wrote in
:

The problem with that is if you haven't reached the daily cap, and
you're starting a journey that would take you up to the cap, and the
barriers are open, you can avoid touching in, in the hope that the
barriers will also be open at the other end and you get a free
journey.
SNIP

Doesn't happen very often though does it? That *both* are open?

Tristán White wrote:
asdf wrote in
:

The problem with that is if you haven't reached the daily cap, and
you're starting a journey that would take you up to the cap, and the
barriers are open, you can avoid touching in, in the hope that the
barriers will also be open at the other end and you get a free
journey.
SNIP

Doesn't happen very often though does it? That *both* are open?

It might just be an open station, like Kensington Olympia, New Cross, or
any DLR station.

--
Dave Arquati
www.alwaystouchout.com - Transport projects in London