Tom Anderson wrote:

Thus, my point that the frequency at the suburban stations is too low to
be useful as a tube line stands, and moreover, Jon Morris's point, which
you've helpfully snipped, that "the service frequency from King's Cross
to Blackfriars makes it almost as good as any other tube line" is also
shown to be an outrageous lie - 8 tph is barely a turn-up-and-go
frequency, and not what i call tube frequency. Perhaps if you've been
unlucky enough to grow up out in the western branches of the Magical
District Line Tree, you might think so, but as someone who lives at
Finsbury Park, i don't.

Just as a point of comparison - several NYC subway routes run less
frequently than 8 tph during rush hours. And midday timetables on many
(most?) routes call for 6 tph.

To be fair, what's considered a single route in NYC might in many cases
be considered one branch of a line in London.
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:25:38 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Contrast with somewhere like Manchester
Piccadilly where two of the platforms are in a completely different
place - and the icing on the cake is that when you stand on the
concourse the platform numbers go 1-10, 13-14 [1], 11-12; although I'm
not claiming that 11-12 are a different set from 1-10.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documen...Piccadilly.pdf

[1] The distant ones.

But looking at the platforms themselves, 13 & 14 are physically to the
right of 11 & 12. It's just the access route that uses the old
cartway between 10 & 11.

And the lift access from Fairfield Street stops at Platform 12 before
going up to the link bridge for 13 & 14 (the shortest way of getting
there from the taxi rank or metrolink).

I can just about remember the ticket office on Fairfield Street - now
an emergency exit only - was this ever a separate station or was it
always part of the former London Road?

In message , at 21:33:35 on
Tue, 12 Jun 2007, G remarked:
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:25:38 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

Contrast with somewhere like Manchester
Piccadilly where two of the platforms are in a completely different
place - and the icing on the cake is that when you stand on the
concourse the platform numbers go 1-10, 13-14 [1], 11-12; although I'm
not claiming that 11-12 are a different set from 1-10.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/documen...Piccadilly.pdf

[1] The distant ones.

But looking at the platforms themselves, 13 & 14 are physically to the
right of 11 & 12. It's just the access route that uses the old
cartway between 10 & 11.

Yes, but it really looks odd when you look up at the signs !

And the lift access from Fairfield Street stops at Platform 12 before
going up to the link bridge for 13 & 14 (the shortest way of getting
there from the taxi rank or metrolink).

I can just about remember the ticket office on Fairfield Street - now
an emergency exit only - was this ever a separate station or was it
always part of the former London Road?

I visited recently, but that was the first time for over 25 years and I
don't remember much about it from then.
--
Roland Perry

On 12 Jun, 18:40, Tom Anderson wrote:
Jon Morris's point, which
you've helpfully snipped, that "the service frequency from King's Cross to
Blackfriars makes it almost as good as any other tube line" is also shown
to be an outrageous lie - 8 tph is barely a turn-up-and-go frequency, and
not what i call tube frequency.

I think a train every 7.5 minutes - or twice that if you need go to
stations that aren't covered by the fast trains) - is quite frequent
and certainly a lot better than alternative ways of cutting through
town in a straight line. You can certainly turn up and go most of the
time, although colleagues at work do look at the timetable. Now, at
Farringdon where I work, you should also use a timetable for the tube
lines - but I bet few people do, even though there is obviously a set
pattern for H&C, Circle and Met line trains. Rest assured, if you need
one specific service you'll potentially wait just as long as for a TL
train.

Perhaps if you've been unlucky enough to
grow up out in the western branches of the Magical District Line Tree, you
might think so, but as someone who lives at Finsbury Park, i don't.

....As someone who used to use Finsbury Park every day (but now goes
through it), I can agree that the Victoria line is certainly better -
but many - or most - other lines (especially in the outer reaches -
such as Oakwood and Cockfosters which were other stations I used a
lot) are anything up to 10 minutes apart or more at certain times of
the day. It's certainly not just the District Line which I've never
understood properly.

Remember, if you're after the Piccadilly Line from Finsbury Park in
the off peak period and want to go to beyond the centre of town then
you'll need to divide up the service frequency between trains going to
different destinations. Lord knows how I used to manage getting to
Oakwood when so many trains suddenly changed to be turned back at
Arnos Grove with about one stations notice!

Jonathan

On 12 Jun, 18:40, Tom Anderson wrote:
My apologies. I was thinking of the post-TLnK plan, where there should be
24 tph through the core, but only 6 tph suburban trains.

Where'd you get that from? The various sample timetables floating
around are pretty vague, but they all seem to imply minimal changes to
the existing routes, with everything else added around them.

"the service frequency from King's Cross to
Blackfriars makes it almost as good as any other tube line" is also shown
to be an outrageous lie - 8 tph is barely a turn-up-and-go frequency, and
not what i call tube frequency.

The Circle Line, the only other direct service, has a frequency of 7
tph.

U

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

Manchester Piccadilly has two, as does London Bridge; any
other offers for three or more?

Why do you count platforms 13 and 14 at Piccadilly as a separate station
and not the three bits of Clapham Junction, for example?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Jack Taylor) wrote:

asdf wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:26:14 +0100, Roland Perry wrote:

But all the CJ platforms are next to one another, and you don't
have to do any special orientation to get from one to the other.
Similarly for the two "sets of" LB through platforms. What I'm
looking for is places where the sets of platforms are completely
disjoint. For example, KX main shed and KX suburban just about
qualify, but Paddington main and suburban probably don't.

At the northern end, KX platforms 8 (main) and 9 (suburban) are
just opposite faces of the same platform island.

Only for about fifteen or twenty feet. There's a wall between the
two for most of the length beyond the trainshed.

With an open passageway between them about half way along platform 9.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

No, the plans are available, and we have experience of the location
of both the MML and Kent (was temporary MML) platforms. The
entrance to the E* departures will be in the middle of the Barlow
Shed, and the entrance to the Thameslink platforms is on the
country side of the currently closed Midland Road exit, at the side
of the domestic ticket office.

All four "sections" are quite disjoint, and the only way from one
set of platforms to the other is via the somewhat maze-like ground
level concourse.

I don't believe there's even (for example) a lift from the MML
platforms directly down to the FCC platforms; nor as the original
questioner was asking is there an extra "secret passage" between
the FCC platforms and either of the LUL ticket halls.

How will one be able to get a bike from St Pancras Thameslink platforms
to King's Cross? It's fairly tiresome at KX TL but this sounds worse.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article . com,
(jonmorris) wrote:

It makes perfect sense to capitalise on the International part. FCC
Thameslink will ultimately run a service that takes in Gatwick
Airport, St Pancras Eurostar and Luton Airport - as well as very
good connections through central London (many people still not even
considering it as a good way to get from north London to south
London in a few minutes, instead of - most likely - going around the
Circle line or going through central London on busy lines like the
Piccadilly Line or Victoria Line).

The service frequency from King's Cross to Blackfriars makes it
almost as good as any other tube line, but I bet loads of people never
consider it (and not having it on the tube map probably doesn't
help!).

Have you tried it and found how slow it is across London? From Brighton
to Cambridge it manages to be quicker to use Southern and the Victoria
Line to the Cross.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Mr Thant wrote:
On 12 Jun, 18:40, Tom Anderson wrote:
"the service frequency from King's Cross to
Blackfriars makes it almost as good as any other tube line" is also shown
to be an outrageous lie - 8 tph is barely a turn-up-and-go frequency, and
not what i call tube frequency.

The Circle Line, the only other direct service, has a frequency of 7
tph.

But it's a direct service in either direction, so that gives you 14 tph!
--
David of Broadway
New York, NY, USA