On Jun 26, 9:57 pm, "Movilla" wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:24:18 +0100, Edward Cowling London UK
wrote:

I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a
particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say
sorry instead given that I work for LU.

That's the first and only apology from LU (ok, you're not a spokesman but
I'll accept it).

The first I became aware of it was getting into Euston from Watford at
08:05. Large crowds were queueing into the underground and after a 10 minute
pass by the deliberate bottleneck I got down from the concourse and onto a
northern line train (Bank) and thought that would be it. The train waited
for 10 minutes at Euston with the driver giving regular updates about a
train stopped at Kennington. Then most bizarrely he started repeatedly
shouting for people to get on the train or leave the station. I wish I could
have recorded it. The station was to be closed. A sort of weird panic ensued
and the train took off to Kings Cross. I think at that point we were told
Euston was closing down due to a power failure. At Kings Cross the platform
was totally full and we were going nowhere. After much faffing (driver was
telling people to get off, announcements were indicating otherwise), we then
overheard lines were stopped at Circle, Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan
and Victoria. Complete chaos. I then heard Kings Cross was to close. I got
above ground at 09:00 and paid £20 got get a black cab to Bank for the DLR
to Canary Wharf for 10am. Buses were not an option.

I have only got stuck once in a number of years when trying to use my
alternative routes and it is much less stressful to be able to take a
firm decision to go to the stop to catch bus x to get to y.

You should have seen it outside Kings Cross. Try competing with about 500
other people trying to get where they're going. No amount of planning ahead
can prepare you for that.

P.S. I know the staff were under a lot of stress but I heard on various
occasions people saying "well, at least they could apologise and not just
shout at us".

Why should you apologise for something that is not your fault or
within your control. If I spilt a drink on someone, then I would
apologise. If someone stood next to me, then I wouldn't.

"Tim Woodall" wrote in message
e.uk...
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:57:47 +0100,
Movilla wrote:

The first I became aware of it was getting into Euston from Watford at
08:05.
I got the 07:46 from Watford arriving Euston at 08:08 (I didn't notice
the exact time we got in)

That's the one I got. I actually got on at Bushey (07:49). I really hate
that train. The 08:09 (so leaves Watford circa 08:06) has 12 coaches and
space to sit down but the 07:49 is only 8 coaches and it's always packed.

I then cycled from Euston to Moorgate and got into work around about
8:30.

One option you've got when it's impossible to get down into Euston
underground is to walk to Euston Square, travel to Moorgate and then
walk to Bank (or catch a bus - I would guess pretty much anything
travelling south on Moorgate would be ok)

Thanks. I never thought of that. Unfortunately I only really hit the chaos
once the train got to Kings Cross. I guess I could have walked back to
Euston Square.

In message ,
Movilla writes
At Kings Cross the platform
was totally full and we were going nowhere. After much faffing (driver was
telling people to get off, announcements were indicating otherwise), we then
overheard lines were stopped at Circle, Hammersmith and City, Metropolitan
and Victoria. Complete chaos. I then heard Kings Cross was to close. I got
above ground at 09:00 and paid £20 got get a black cab to Bank for the DLR

When all other forms of transport fail taxis keep people moving (well
nearly
always). Yet we get no subsidy and have to comply with some of the
tightest regulations on vehicles and drivers in the world.

I have no complaint about that *but* taxi fares are set by TfL (PCO)
which is mostly controlled by bus company staff with no representation
from the taxi trade - that's what gets to me.

--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England

Paul Corfield wrote in uk.transport.london on Tue, 26 Jun 2007
19:48:56 +0100 :

You probably won't like my next suggestion and I would agree that you
shouldn't have to plan like this. I make sure I have a number of
alternative routes already worked out to get me to where I want to get
to.

Agreed on both counts (that one shouldn't have to plan for this, but
that contingency plans are well worth it).

I've regularly been amazed at the number of fellow travellers during
the peaks who don't appear to realise that there *are* alternatives to
their chosen route, even without running the risk of being turned into
a toad by getting on (shock, horror) a *bus*.

Heading the "wrong" way from the congestion point for a while in order
to get on a bus heading back in the right direction before the
pressure of hundreds of folk at a bus stop is a further option that
I've found pays dividends.

(Insert further disclaimers about the preferability of
perfectly-designed, resourced and planned systems, catering for
irregular users, my not working for TfL, etc, etc.)

Dave
"are you trying to tell me coconuts migrate?"

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:51:33 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

I am a senior manager and people who post here are our
passengers (delete as applicable).

:-)

On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:29:10 +0100, Mike Hughes
wrote:

I have no complaint about that *but* taxi fares are set by TfL (PCO)
which is mostly controlled by bus company staff with no representation
from the taxi trade - that's what gets to me.

Comparing taxi fares when I moved to London with how they are now -
sorry, but I have no sympathy.

In message , James Farrar
writes
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:29:10 +0100, Mike Hughes
wrote:

I have no complaint about that *but* taxi fares are set by TfL (PCO)
which is mostly controlled by bus company staff with no representation
from the taxi trade - that's what gets to me.

Comparing taxi fares when I moved to London with how they are now -
sorry, but I have no sympathy.

Strangely enough, for short distances it is actually cheaper for 4 or 5
people to take a taxi than to take a bus or tube - and you get door to
door service! That's because we used to get a small amount extra for
extra passengers and that was taken away from us.

In fact for 3 or more people it's cheaper to go all the way to Heathrow
than use the Heathrow Express. You have to look at the overall costs.
One person a taxi is more expensive
two- marginal cost difference
three - cost saving
four or five - considerable cost savings

And yet we are not allowed to advertise this fact at Heathrow allegedly
because BAA have a financial stake in HEx.

--
Mike Hughes
A Taxi driver licensed for London and Brighton
at home in Tarring, West Sussex, England

On Jun 26, 7:54 pm, wrote:
I could try to explain but I don't think that would help. It was a
particularly awful morning in terms of big signal problems so I'll say
sorry instead given that I work for LU.

Ah yes but signal failures would be down to the (privatised)
infracos!!!! I'm not sure about the Victoria line, but on the
Northern that's the second time in just over a week that there has
been a points failure at Kennington when I was on duty. I blame
Tubelines - and underinvestment in general.



Admits to working for London Underground!

So do I! And it wasn't my fault!!!

So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee
Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less
than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging
Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/
Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have
known what they were letting themselves in for.

Kevin

Hi,

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap,
and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform
the Tube !!

Make sure you fill out your customer charter refund form (available
from
leaflet racks at tube stations), which at least slightly reduces the
amount
one has to pay out each week./month. I get a reasonably steady stream
of vouchers through the post.

I've been considering handing them out to other passengers when
delayed, but there isn't the space to walk through the carriage in the
mornings.

Luke

On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote:
So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee
Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less
than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging
Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/
Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have
known what they were letting themselves in for.

Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex
electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years
is Pretty Damn Old.

Between 1945 and 2000, with the exception of the absolutely-necessary-
to-avoid-gridlock Victoria Line, the half-arsed-compromise Jubilee
Line, and the Thatcher's-Docklands-project-must-succeed-or-else JLE,
there was no investment in the Underground system. None.

Central government skimped on the money for essential maintenance, and
didn't make any money available for capital projects such as major
line or signalling upgrades. London was a declining city and the train
was a declining transport mode - cars and suburbs were the way
forward.

So anyone who blames Ken, LUL management, or even Metronet and
Tubelines for the state of the tube today is simply wrong. Ken, the
current government, LUL's current management and the infracos are the
first people since the days of LPTB in the 1930s to embark on a
serious programme of upgrades to the underground. This isn't
necessarily because they're all wonderful people, just that people
have suddenly noticed that London is growing again and the private car
is not a viable means of transport within London.

Yes, it gets frustrating when there are signal failures because 30, 50
or 80 year old kit doesn't work very well. It's also frustrating when
there are signal failures or lift failures or train failures because
brand new kit hasn't bedded in yet[*]. But there's a generally
understood curve over time in reliability of major capital assets - it
doesn't work very well when brand new, works quite well for some time
after that, and then doesn't work very well again because it's too
old. And at the moment, most of the kit on the Tube is either brand
new, being replaced, or very old and knackered...

Hopefully, Ken's Tory rival will also be aware of the glaring reality
that continued investment in London's transport system is absolutely
vital - although given their previous choices of a perjurer and a road-
builder, I've got to admit I'm sceptical. But IMO anyone who refuses
to vote Ken because they think he isn't doing a good job on London's
transport is an idiot (if they refuse to vote Ken because they don't
agree with his left-wing politics in other areas, then that's a
different story).
[*] or because a new high-speed train control system makes the trains
accelerate so fast that the motors fall off, as with ATO on the
Central line.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org