On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:04:47 -0700, wrote:

On Jun 27, 7:59 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:


My team do their fair share of the day to day trouble shooting of faults
with the FRC and TLL engineers. We do a daily review of faults and
incidents and investigate what has gone wrong and why.

Do you do this independantly of operational managers who also
investigate incidents? Or do you work with/from what they find? Just
curious.

We will use a wide range of information but a lot of it comes from DMTs
via EIRFs / F&Ds etc. If it is a very complex incident that is worth a
lot of money then obviously there can be more challenge from TLL so we
work to make sure we know exactly what went on. This can involve talking
to lots of people and collating a lot of extra information over and
above the basic sources.

A lot of the contractual stuff is also day to day with people on the
trains team doing cab rides for speed restrictions or visiting site
after serious disruptions as well as operating all the data collection
and contractual processes that we have to do.

Fair point, I think to put it slightly more clearly, you are more
focussed on making sure things get fixed, whilst I am more focussed on
how to run the railway as best we can round whatever bit of it happens
to be broken at the moment. Just so you know where I'm coming from
here, I am a Service (Line) Controller on the Northern.

An inhabitant of Coburg St - you are lucky ;-)
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

On Jun 27, 8:22 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:


We will use a wide range of information but a lot of it comes from DMTs
via EIRFs / F&Ds etc. If it is a very complex incident that is worth a
lot of money then obviously there can be more challenge from TLL so we
work to make sure we know exactly what went on. This can involve talking
to lots of people and collating a lot of extra information over and
above the basic sources.

Controllers write F&Ds! You'll be able to spot my items because my
writing is actually legible

A lot of the contractual stuff is also day to day with people on the
trains team doing cab rides for speed restrictions or visiting site
after serious disruptions as well as operating all the data collection
and contractual processes that we have to do.

Fair point, I think to put it slightly more clearly, you are more
focussed on making sure things get fixed, whilst I am more focussed on
how to run the railway as best we can round whatever bit of it happens
to be broken at the moment. Just so you know where I'm coming from
here, I am a Service (Line) Controller on the Northern.

An inhabitant of Coburg St - you are lucky ;-)

There's lots of worse places to work than Cobourg St

Hannah

"Luke Ross" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

So I'm thinking, why am I paying £33.20 a week to put up with this crap,
and why people keep voting for Ken, the guy who promised to transform
the Tube !!

Make sure you fill out your customer charter refund form (available
from leaflet racks at tube stations), which at least slightly reduces the
amount one has to pay out each week./month. I get a reasonably steady stream
of vouchers through the post.

Can you claim for the cost of alternative journeys? I had to pay £20 for a
cab from KX to Bank but didn't bother getting a receipt thinking there was
no way I could claim it back.

On 27 Jun, 22:28, "Movilla" wrote:
Can you claim for the cost of alternative journeys? I had to pay £20 for a
cab from KX to Bank but didn't bother getting a receipt thinking there was
no way I could claim it back.

Well, if it was a work journey, I'd suggest claiming it back from work
(you needed me at place X at time Y for a meeting or whatever, the
only way to achieve this was by taxi, therefore you owe me for a
taxi).

If not, then you're probably right.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Jun 27, 3:48 pm, chunky munky
wrote:
On Jun 27, 2:43 pm, Kev wrote:





On Jun 27, 11:18 am, John B wrote: On Jun 27, 10:07 am, Kev wrote:

So why are there signal failures on the less than 10 years old Jubilee
Line extenstion or the less than 30 year old Jubilee Line or the less
than 50 years old Victoria Line. I thought it was all due to the aging
Victorian infrastructure. It doesn't seem reasonable to blame Metronet/
Tubelines for the **** that they inherited, even if they should have
known what they were letting themselves in for.

Scientifically speaking, when you're talking about complex
electromechanical systems like train signalling, 30 years and 50 years
is Pretty Damn Old.

I notice that you didn't mention the less than 10 year old Jubilee
Line extension. I accept that the Victoria Line signalling is probably
knackered I just wish that all concerned would stop going on how the
probelms are all due to the "Victorian" infrastructure. The DLR is
hardly Victorian and the signalling and all the trains have been
replaced since it was built.
I can't wait for the first signal failure on the new Westinghouse
system on the Victoria Line and on the new Thales system on the
Jubilee Line.

Kevin

But lots of the newer kit is bolted on to or "talks to" the Victorian
or kit from the 20's-60's!

There will be problems with the new stuff, as it won't be built to
last....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not on the Jubilee Line and that still gets problems.

Kevin

On 27 Jun, 19:06, wrote:
On Jun 26, 9:51 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

There are
a lot of issues here and a hell of a lot of effort from people in LU and
Tube Lines to make the Northern Line work.

I know! I'm one of them! Operational staff also get frustrated by
trying to do a good job and being perpetually hampered by the
delapidated infrastructure we have to work with. Well I know I do. I
know that our job is to provide the best possible train service to the
travelling public, and on the Northern line a lot of the time it seems
we are operating on a wing and a prayer. I'm sure you have quite a
different perspective on it to me as I am more involved in day-to-day
keeping the railway running as best we can no matter what goes wrong,
while you (by the sounds of it) are more looking at how the Northern
line can be improved in the longer term.

Hannah

How many times does it come down to apparant sheer incompetance from
the line controllers as happened on Sunday Evening on the Northern at
Finchley central?
Mill Hill East trains delayed by the fact that the 38TS was on a rail
tour
Scenario
Arrive 18.45 ish
No trains to Mill Hill
38 allegedly in public service for this stretch cause it would cause
unacceptable delays
38ts does not stop
reemerges from Mill Hill 15 odd mins later does not stop
Train to Mill HIll sits in siding south of Station for at least
another 10 minutes
This was now close to 19.30 by the time it came
Result pax for MIll Hill delayed for at least 30 if not 40 minutes

This has nothing to do with infrastructure

Great Idea put a special in service so it does not inconvienence your
customers
Shame if you are not capable of implementing it.

On 28 Jun, 08:31, Kev wrote:
But lots of the newer kit is bolted on to or "talks to" the Victorian
or kit from the 20's-60's!


Not on the Jubilee Line and that still gets problems.


Err, the kit on the Jubilee line is a mixture of original Met/Bakerloo
signalling north of Baker Street, 1970s kit compatible with the retro
systems between Green Park and Baker Street, and a hastily implemented
bolt-on version of classic LUL signalling on the JLE (built after the
moving block ATO that had been originally planed for the JLE proved
to, err, not work at all).

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Hi,

Movilla wrote:

Make sure you fill out your customer charter refund form (available
from leaflet racks at tube stations), which at least slightly reduces the
amount one has to pay out each week./month. I get a reasonably steady stream
of vouchers through the post.

Can you claim for the cost of alternative journeys? I had to pay £20 for a
cab from KX to Bank but didn't bother getting a receipt thinking there was
no way I could claim it back.

Sadly the charter only covers the cost of the journey - no
consequential loss (which
the taxi would fall under, I believe). They pay-out is £4 per single
journey, as that's
the cost of a cash single tube journey. The form is postage-paid and
takes about
five minutes to fill in. You can also claim online, but it isn't as
flexible and I don't
believe in reducing the admin cost of charter claims :-)

Regards,

Luke

In article .com,
(John B) wrote:

Between 1945 and 2000, with the exception of the
absolutely-necessary-to-avoid-gridlock Victoria Line, the
half-arsed-compromise Jubilee Line, and the
Thatcher's-Docklands-project-must-succeed-or-else JLE, there was no
investment in the Underground system. None.

Oblox! For example, you have ignored the investment in rolling stock
which covered the entire fleet in that period, some twice (e.g. most of
the District stock).

I know for a fact that the District signalling was replaced in the
1950s/60s too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 1 Jul 2007 20:33 +0100 (BST), Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

Between 1945 and 2000, with the exception of the
absolutely-necessary-to-avoid-gridlock Victoria Line, the
half-arsed-compromise Jubilee Line, and the
Thatcher's-Docklands-project-must-succeed-or-else JLE, there was no
investment in the Underground system. None.

Oblox! For example, you have ignored the investment in rolling stock
which covered the entire fleet in that period, some twice (e.g. most of
the District stock).

I know for a fact that the District signalling was replaced in the
1950s/60s too.

That's just maintenance and renewals though, which is in a different
category from investment in new infrastructure (which I think is what
the PP meant).