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#1
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007, John B wrote:
On 28 Jun, 11:41, Kev wrote: (apart from people who think that its only purpose is to speed commuting times between Maidenhead and Canary Wharf - I suspect these are the same people who thought Thameslink's purpose was to speed commuting times between Streatham and St Albans). You mean to say that isn't what it is for. The point is that it relieves the pressure on all the central Underground lines Well, the Central line, and i think the Met and District, but not to the same degree. I don't believe it does anything for any other lines; my memory of the relief maps in the hoary old Central London Rail study is that most of the nice green and blue bits are to the east. Now, if they'd gone for the Wimbledon alignment ... plus Liverpool Street and Paddington mainline stations, plus the other transport links to Heathrow. AIUI, Crossrail will take over the Heathrow paths that are currently in use by Heathrow Connect; it won't provide more trains. Although, of course, they'll be twice the size. Is HC currently anywhere near capacity? I've never heard it suggested that it is; i suspect the premium fare may have something to do with this. Will that go away with Crossrail? Even if not, i suspect Crossrail will be more attractive than HC, since you don't have to change at Paddington. tom -- Biochemistry is the study of carbon compounds that wriggle. |
#2
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On 28 Jun, 10:15, John B wrote:
However, as any fule kno, the stumbling block for the last few years has been on where the money's coming from. If Gordon wants to gain popularity and credibility with London voters and business leaders, then an announcement on Crossrail financing - obviously conditional on the passage of the bill - would be a good way to do so. Maybe. But I'd think a funding commitment would be a risky idea politically. It could easily look like throwing money at an extravagant project with no real care, that will only benefit a few Londoners and a few big city businesses etc etc. All of the politically safe moves (funding development, introducing a bill) have already been done. I'm sure there will be a big song and dance when/if it does get funding, but now doesn't seem like a good time to me. U -- http://londonconnections.blogspot.com |
#3
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On Jun 28, 12:04 pm, Mr Thant
wrote: On 28 Jun, 10:15, John B wrote: However, as any fule kno, the stumbling block for the last few years has been on where the money's coming from. If Gordon wants to gain popularity and credibility with London voters and business leaders, then an announcement on Crossrail financing - obviously conditional on the passage of the bill - would be a good way to do so. Maybe. But I'd think a funding commitment would be a risky idea politically. It could easily look like throwing money at an extravagant project with no real care, that will only benefit a few Londoners and a few big city businesses etc etc. All of the politically safe moves (funding development, introducing a bill) have already been done. But it won't just benefit a few Londoners. It'll indirectly benefit just about everyone that ever uses public transport in London - that must be about 20% of the country. Plus it'd have the added benefit of stopping the economy from grinding to a halt because noone in London can get about any more. Jonn Elledge |
#4
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007, John B wrote:
On 27 Jun, 22:19, Mr Thant wrote: My guess: We have an anouncement on Crossrail soon. It already has the government's full support - the current hurdle is getting it through parliament, which isn't really something you can announce. I don't think any progress can be made until there's been a few months of consultation whatnot over the recent Woolwich changes. The only thing Brown could announce is scrapping it. However, as any fule kno, the stumbling block for the last few years has been on where the money's coming from. If Gordon wants to gain popularity and credibility with London voters and business leaders, then an announcement on Crossrail financing - obviously conditional on the passage of the bill - would be a good way to do so. Three words: land value capture. LVC is blindingly obviously the best way to fund large infrastructure projects like this. The reason it hasn't been used yet is that there isn't a legal framework to do it. El Gordo could announce that he was going to put one in place, thereby showing people that he backs public transport and that he's still a financial innovator, all for zero cost to the Treasury. tom PS This document contains a few tidbits of info on LVC, starting on page 8; by coincidence, it also discusses privatisation of trunk roads, with multiple competing routes between cities, as came up in another thread: http://www.policyinstitute.info/AllPDFs/Bruce2Sep05.pdf -- Biochemistry is the study of carbon compounds that wriggle. |
#5
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On 27 Jun, 22:19, Mr Thant
wrote: My guess: We have an anouncement on Crossrail soon. The Thameslink Programme, on the other hand... Yes my money is on Thameslink being announced as its; a) further advanced b) cheaper c) first phase can be (probably) completed before the olympics d) Less likely to soak up civil resources that would be needed for said games (Dont get me wrong; its a lot of work just not the same magnitude as Crossrail) For the next five years everything in political terms is governed by the olympic timetable. I would be very surprised if there is a serious start on Crossrail till its over. |
#6
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On 28 Jun, 14:27, kytelly wrote:
For the next five years everything in political terms is governed by the olympic timetable. I would be very surprised if there is a serious start on Crossrail till its over. I had thought this - but someone clever (possibly on u.t.l/u.r) recently pointed out to me that one of the few things the Olympics *won't* need in civil engineering terms is skilled, specialised tunnellers and customised, specialised boring machines. Therefore, these will be among the few resources within the building market that *aren't* at a massive premium during the lead-up to 2012. If my understanding of the construction process is right, and if Crossrail building were to start next year, then the main work for about the first five years would be the tunnelling. Fit-out and surface construction would then kick off around 2013: conveniently in time to use all the builders freed up by the completion (/abandonment, depending on your levels of cynicism) of Olympic works. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org/blog |
#7
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
On 28 Jun, 14:53, John B wrote:
On 28 Jun, 14:27, kytelly wrote: For the next five years everything in political terms is governed by the olympic timetable. I would be very surprised if there is a serious start on Crossrail till its over. I had thought this - but someone clever (possibly on u.t.l/u.r) recently pointed out to me that one of the few things the Olympics *won't* need in civil engineering terms is skilled, specialised tunnellers and customised, specialised boring machines. Therefore, these will be among the few resources within the building market that *aren't* at a massive premium during the lead-up to 2012. If my understanding of the construction process is right, and if Crossrail building were to start next year, then the main work for about the first five years would be the tunnelling. Fit-out and surface construction would then kick off around 2013: conveniently in time to use all the builders freed up by the completion (/abandonment, depending on your levels of cynicism) of Olympic works. -- John Band john at johnband dot orgwww.johnband.org/blog Hmm I take your point but I think we're both feeling around in the dark a bit here as neither of us are civil engineers. I would suggest that the actual tunneling is but one part of building a tunnel; Design, project management and proffessional services would have a lot of overlap with other big projects. I'm not saying it wouldnt be possible but the way this country seems to work would rule out two mega civil projects running concurrently. |
#8
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New Prime Minister - New Transport Policy?
Adrian Auer-Hudson, MIMIS wrote:
My guess: We have an anouncement on Crossrail soon. The announcement will feature 'cross' and 'rail' in it alright - as in 'rail passengers become very cross' - if this story is to be believed; http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle1996604.ece "Train fares will rise by several times the rate of inflation under a series of deals between the Government and rail companies designed to take advantage of record growth in demand for rail travel." ESB |
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