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Old December 28th 07, 08:57 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

It suddenly struck me yesterday when I was up in London, why do TFL
still use the old British Rail logo? Whenever you get to a station
with an overground rail connection, there are signs saying "Trains"
with an arrow and the old logo. In fact I'd also like to what they
think the things that run on the Underground are if not "trains"?
On the southbound Bakerloo platfrom at Waterloo, there's still a sign
that says "British Rail" in blue illuminated glass. Its on both sides
of the sign, so I wonder of this is a deliberate.
Now, If you look at the new "Overground" stickers going up on the
information signs at station, they also have the old BR logo printed
on them.
Why does this still happen?

Neill

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Old December 28th 07, 09:09 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

At the time of privatisation is was decided that the symbol would be
retained to indicate the railway network and that is still the case
today.
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Old December 28th 07, 09:10 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:57:39 -0800 (PST), Neill
wrote:

Why does this still happen?


Because it remains as the logo used to represent mainline rail
throughout the country, and has by no means been retired.

Neil

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Old December 28th 07, 09:23 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

On 28 Dec, 20:57, Neill wrote:
It suddenly struck me yesterday when I was up in London, why do TFL
still use the old British Rail logo? Whenever you get to a station
with an overground rail connection, there are signs saying "Trains"
with an arrow and the old logo.


You'd better tell the National Rail people to stop using it too:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/

On the southbound Bakerloo platfrom at Waterloo, there's still a sign
that says "British Rail" in blue illuminated glass. Its on both sides
of the sign, so I wonder of this is a deliberate.


Old Street still has a British Rail (Eastern Region) sign lurking.

U

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Old December 28th 07, 09:42 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

Neill wrote:
It suddenly struck me yesterday when I was up in London, why do TFL
still use the old British Rail logo?


What makes you think that it's only "up in London" that the National
Rail symbol is used? What part of the country do you come from? Don't
you see it there?
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Old December 28th 07, 09:55 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground


"Neill" wrote in message
...

Now, If you look at the new "Overground" stickers going up on the
information signs at station, they also have the old BR logo printed
on them.
Why does this still happen?


Because the 'London Overground' is still part of the current national rail
network, whose sign it is, not the 'tube' despite what you might think if
you listen only to Ken Livingstone?

Paul


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Old December 29th 07, 12:36 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

It suddenly struck me yesterday when I was up in London, why do TFL
still use the old British Rail logo? Whenever you get to a station
with an overground rail connection, there are signs saying "Trains"
with an arrow and the old logo.


It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo - its accepted as the standard design in the UK meaning "Railway",
regardless of who is running the trains. National Rail still use it, maps
still use it... why would you change it? (Incidentally, what is the name of
this logo, I remember someone telling me once but I have forgotten!)

In fact I'd also like to what they
think the things that run on the Underground are if not "trains"?


In non enthusiast speak, they are tubes - even the sub-surface stock. So,
the rail symbol and the word trains quite easily conveys National Trains.

On the southbound Bakerloo platfrom at Waterloo, there's still a sign
that says "British Rail" in blue illuminated glass. Its on both sides
of the sign, so I wonder of this is a deliberate.


I doubt it, but why change it? It is blindingly obvious what it means. Plus,
whilst British Rail as an organisation may be defunct, the term "british
rail" is still an accurate description of where the sign is pointing too.
Plus, these days, if you put the TOC name on it you'll have to replace the
sign every few years.

Now, If you look at the new "Overground" stickers going up on the
information signs at station, they also have the old BR logo printed
on them.
Why does this still happen?


London Overground is effectively a Train Operating Company on the national
rail network, just like One, c2c, SouthWest Trains, any others you may care
to mention, therefore the railway logo is still valid. TfL choose to
substantiate that with the Overground label which, given that they own
London Overground, is a fairly obvious thing to do.

Best Wishes,
LEWIS


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Old December 29th 07, 12:49 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

On Dec 29, 12:36 am, "Lew 1"
wrote:
It suddenly struck me yesterday when I was up in London, why do TFL
still use the old British Rail logo? Whenever you get to a station
with an overground rail connection, there are signs saying "Trains"
with an arrow and the old logo.


It's *not* an old logo. Every railway station in the country shows that
logo - its accepted as the standard design in the UK meaning "Railway",
regardless of who is running the trains. National Rail still use it, maps
still use it... why would you change it? (Incidentally, what is the name of
this logo, I remember someone telling me once but I have forgotten!)

In fact I'd also like to what they
think the things that run on the Underground are if not "trains"?


In non enthusiast speak, they are tubes - even the sub-surface stock. So,
the rail symbol and the word trains quite easily conveys National Trains.

On the southbound Bakerloo platfrom at Waterloo, there's still a sign
that says "British Rail" in blue illuminated glass. Its on both sides
of the sign, so I wonder of this is a deliberate.


I doubt it, but why change it? It is blindingly obvious what it means. Plus,
whilst British Rail as an organisation may be defunct, the term "british
rail" is still an accurate description of where the sign is pointing too.
Plus, these days, if you put the TOC name on it you'll have to replace the
sign every few years.

Now, If you look at the new "Overground" stickers going up on the
information signs at station, they also have the old BR logo printed
on them.
Why does this still happen?


London Overground is effectively a Train Operating Company on the national
rail network, just like One, c2c, SouthWest Trains, any others you may care
to mention, therefore the railway logo is still valid. TfL choose to
substantiate that with the Overground label which, given that they own
London Overground, is a fairly obvious thing to do.

Best Wishes,
LEWIS


London Overground isn't quite like a TOC. It is a concession from TfL.
A private firm operate it on TfLs behalf. TfL set the timetable, fares
and staffing levels. They also retain 100% of the fares.

If a LO station only has LO services then it will eventually not have
the NR Double Arrow logo, there are some expections to this. There is
more information in the Corporate Design section of the TfL website.

I completely agree with no changing all the signs unless essential.
Though there are still some high-profile signs up with Aldwych!
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Old December 29th 07, 01:09 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

On 29 Dec, 00:49, chunky munky wrote:
London Overground isn't quite like a TOC. It is a concession from TfL.
A private firm operate it on TfLs behalf. TfL set the timetable, fares
and staffing levels. They also retain 100% of the fares.


90%. And it is a TOC within the National Rail system. The thing it
isn't is a franchise.

If a LO station only has LO services then it will eventually not have
the NR Double Arrow logo, there are some expections to this. There is
more information in the Corporate Design section of the TfL website.


That's not quite right - the North London Railway is a National Rail
service, but the East London Railway is not, probably due to the
project's heritage as a tube line. Stations that are only served by
the East London Railway (which also happen to be the ones owned by TfL
rather than Network Rail) won't have double arrows, but the rest will.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London
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Old December 29th 07, 05:15 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Old BR logo on London Underground

On Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:55:45 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:


"Neill" wrote in message
...

Now, If you look at the new "Overground" stickers going up on the
information signs at station, they also have the old BR logo printed
on them.
Why does this still happen?


Because the 'London Overground' is still part of the current national rail
network, whose sign it is, not the 'tube' despite what you might think if
you listen only to Ken Livingstone?


Or if you look at Tube line diagrams.

All TOCs are equal, but some TOCs are more equal than others.


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