On Feb 28, 10:09 am, John B wrote:
On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of Carriage
state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their start and end
stations.

On Feb 28, 10:05 am, "Richard J." wrote:
Offramp wrote:
On Feb 28, 7:43 am, Old Central wrote:
OK I am a regular Underground and Tramlink user but whenever I
visit DLR, (WIQ, West India Quay, and GAR, Gallions Reach) I often
fail to touch out.

Most valaidators face out so welcome travellers to the system but
don't help those existing the system.

Thoughts?

OC

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

According to the "Common Questions" on the DLR part of TfL's website "If
you are using pay as you go, you must touch your Oyster card on the
reader every time you enter and exit the station."

If you are using a valid Travelcard loaded on your Oyster, or a Freedom
Pass, there's no point in touching in and out on DLR where there are no
gates.

So if you have a zone 2 travelcard and you are travelling from Cutty
Sark to Mornington Crescent, you don't have to swipe in? When do you
pay for zone 1?

On Feb 28, 10:43 am, MIG wrote:
On 28 Feb, 10:09, John B wrote:

On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

That's not quite true. If you have a zone 1 - 2 travelcard on Oyster
and continue to West Ruislip via Bank using PAYG for the excess, you
do need to touch in somewhere. True, you can do it at Bank, but might
as well be at your starting station to avoid forgetting.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...f_carriage.pdf
On page 12:
6.6.1. When you use Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and
National Rail
services, you must touch your Oyster card on the card reader at both
the start and the end
of your journey. If the ticket gates at stations are open you must
still touch your Oyster card on the card reader.

That ties in with TfL's general Conditions of Carriage.
There is no mention of what type of ticket; it just means all Oyster
cards. There's obviously a lot of fare evaders in this group!

On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:

On Feb 28, 10:09 am, John B wrote:
On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of Carriage
state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their start and end
stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. In this case, you're
deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard holders do not
need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of their Travelcard to
avoid a maximum cash fare.
[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

On Feb 29, 8:37 am, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp



wrote:
On Feb 28, 10:09 am, John B wrote:
On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of Carriage
state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their start and end
stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. In this case, you're
deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard holders do not
need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of their Travelcard to
avoid a maximum cash fare.

[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

The original point was "Do they still have those misleading - totally
incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in)."

As the DLR and TfL C-o-Cs state, "all Oyster customers need to swipe
in," as I said, or "all Oyster customers need to touch in," no matter
what their journey is.

I am not making this up - you can read it yourself.

It is Occam's Razor - everyone with whatever ticket on their Oyster
must touch in on the DLR or anywhere else. Pretty straightforward.

Further complaints, such as not wanting to touch in because, "they
have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket that covers their
journey", should be addressed to TfL.

On Feb 29, 6:52*am, Offramp wrote:
On Feb 28, 10:43 am, MIG wrote:





On 28 Feb, 10:09, John B wrote:

On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

That's not quite true. *If you have a zone 1 - 2 travelcard on Oyster
and continue to West Ruislip via Bank using PAYG for the excess, you
do need to touch in somewhere. *True, you can do it at Bank, but might
as well be at your starting station to avoid forgetting.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...f_carriage.pdf
On page 12:
6.6.1. When you use Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and
National Rail
services, you must touch your Oyster card on the card reader at both
the start and the end
of your journey. If the ticket gates at stations are open you must
still touch your Oyster card on the card reader.

That ties in with TfL's general Conditions of Carriage.
There is no mention of what type of ticket; it just means all Oyster
cards. There's obviously a lot of fare evaders in this group!-

Explain how a journey with a travelcard within the zones covered by
the travelcard is fare-evasion.

You are obviously one of the many people who believe that the purpose
of Oyster is to make it easier to enforce the rules of Oyster.

On Feb 29, 9:14 am, MIG wrote:
On Feb 29, 6:52 am, Offramp wrote:



On Feb 28, 10:43 am, MIG wrote:

On 28 Feb, 10:09, John B wrote:

On 28 Feb, 09:55, Offramp wrote:
[DLR]

Do they still have those misleading - totally incorrect in fact -
signs on the validators that only pay-as-you-go customers need to
swipe in? (It should be that all Oyster customers need to swipe in).

Eh? Only PAYG customers do need to swipe in - if you have a Travelcard
that covers you for the zones you're intending to travel in, you don't
need to swipe in, whether you're on NR, LU, DLR or a bendy bus.

You might disapprove of this policy out of some misguided anti-season-
ticket-holder-animosity, but it's The Case [why the flaming hell would
it not be? They have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket
that covers their journey...]

That's not quite true. If you have a zone 1 - 2 travelcard on Oyster
and continue to West Ruislip via Bank using PAYG for the excess, you
do need to touch in somewhere. True, you can do it at Bank, but might
as well be at your starting station to avoid forgetting.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...f_carriage.pdf
On page 12:
6.6.1. When you use Docklands Light Railway, London Underground and
National Rail
services, you must touch your Oyster card on the card reader at both
the start and the end
of your journey. If the ticket gates at stations are open you must
still touch your Oyster card on the card reader.

That ties in with TfL's general Conditions of Carriage.
There is no mention of what type of ticket; it just means all Oyster
cards. There's obviously a lot of fare evaders in this group!-

Explain how a journey with a travelcard within the zones covered by
the travelcard is fare-evasion.

You are obviously one of the many people who believe that the purpose
of Oyster is to make it easier to enforce the rules of Oyster.

I do not see what your point is, or why you have become so defensive.
The Conditions of Carriage are very clear, and I won't repeat them.
People who for some reason do not want to obey those conditions must
have a reason for not obeying them. I do not know what that reason is,
but I have my own opinion, which I will keep to myself.

You added a comment about met: "You are obviously one of the many
people who believe that the purpose of Oyster is to make it easier to
enforce the rules of Oyster."
I do not know what makes you think that. I have simply quoted the Cs-o-
C.

On 29 Feb, 08:51, Offramp wrote:
Further complaints, such as not wanting to touch in because, "they
have paid a great deal of money for a valid ticket that covers their
journey", should be addressed to TfL.

The conditions of carriage are overly simplified, probably so fare
evaders have one less excuse in court. As the sign on the DLR reader
proves, in practice they only care about pre-pay users touching in/out
everywhere.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

On 29 Feb, 06:47, Offramp wrote:
On Feb 28, 10:05 am, "Richard J." wrote:
If you are using a valid Travelcard loaded on your Oyster, or a Freedom
Pass, there's no point in touching in and out on DLR where there are no
gates.

So if you have a zone 2 travelcard and you are travelling from Cutty
Sark to Mornington Crescent, you don't have to swipe in? When do you
pay for zone 1?

Richard said "valid Travelcard". A non zone 1 Travelcard isn't valid
for such a journey (it has to cover all zones passed through), so you
do have to touch in and out.

U

--
http://londonconnections.blogspot.com/
A blog about transport projects in London

Offramp wrote:
On Feb 29, 8:37 am, James Farrar wrote:
On Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:39:06 -0800 (PST), Offramp
wrote:

Transport for London disagrees with you. The Conditions of
Carriage state that all Oyster card users must swipe in at their
start and end stations.

The CoC state all sorts of interesting things. In this case,
you're deflecting away from the original point that Travelcard
holders do not need to touch in and out[*] within the zones of
their Travelcard to avoid a maximum cash fare.

[*] And can you please stop using the inappropriate verb "swipe"?
Swiping the card across the target is liable to lead to a 94 error.

The original point was "Do they still have those misleading -
totally incorrect in fact - signs on the validators that only
pay-as-you-go customers need to swipe in? (It should be that all
Oyster customers need to swipe in)."

As the DLR and TfL C-o-Cs state, "all Oyster customers need to swipe
in," as I said, or "all Oyster customers need to touch in," no
matter what their journey is.

The link you provided earlier was to the DLR C-o-C of 2006 which has now
been superseded. The latest one is the TfL C-o-C dated 2 January 2008 at
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...e-08-01-02.pdf
which includes the following:

"1.2. These Conditions of Carriage, which may be amended from time to
time, replace all previous versions published by Transport for London,
London Transport and its subsidiaries.

6.6. Using a season ticket on your Oyster card
6.6.1. When you use London Underground, London Overground and National
Rail services, you must touch your Oyster card on the yellow card reader
at both the start and the end of your journey. If the ticket gates at
stations are open you must still touch your Oyster card on the card
reader.
When you use a bus, you must touch your Oyster card on the yellow card
reader as you board the bus ..."

Note, no mention of DLR or trams, so touching in when your journey is
covered by a season ticket is NOT necessary on DLR or trams, but IS
required on LU, NR and buses (including bendy buses).

--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)