"Mizter T" wrote in message
...


All the 'mainline' lines out of Moorgate are owned by Network Rail
these days, and I'm almost certain that tripcocks are not in use on
either line these days.

I should have made that delineation. FCC Thameslink trains out of Moorgate
indeed are not equipped with tripcocks.

The "Northern City line" in a large diameter tube that runs up to
Drayton Park has been in mainline railway ownership since it
transferred from LU to British Rail in 1975 or 76.

The Northern City Line is another story, however. I have seen policemen
operating as trains pull into Moorgate. I'm not saying that the whole
segment between Moorgate and Drayton Park is equipped with stoparms, because
I simply don't know, but I did see them at Moorgate.

Is it possible that they simply left the policemen at Moorgate when NR took
over? It would be surprising to see them working after all these years.

At least two SWT trains routinely run along that stretch late at
night/ early in the morning.

Revenue or non-revenue?

"Richard J." wrote in message
m...

The answer is that the line is fitted with TPWS as well as the LUL
trainstop system. At each signal, there is a TPWS loop and a trainstop.

I thought there might be something like that. I'm also guessing that it
would be illegal to have tracks not equipped with some sort of redundant
saftey system in potential revenue service.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

The apparent gradient off the windsor lines is quite something BTW
- I should imagine icy conditions may make things difficult?

The gradient may be more apparent than real. There is quite a downgrade
from Point Peasant

I realise this is south of the river, but that name seems a little harsh.

tom

--
There are no MPs in the position opposite the Liberal Democrats. --
Chris Lightfoot

On Mar 22, 3:22 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 22 Mar, 10:55, "Paul Scott" wrote:

wrote in message

Does that part of LUL have AWS (I don't recall seeing it when I was down
there.)? If not, then whar sort of safety back up are SWT trains using on
that segment, lower speeds? AFAIK, SWT trains are not equipped with
tripcocks.

At the risk of restarting an old thread, although there are tripcocks for LU
trains, the line is still signalled and owned by Network Rail, so I believe
that's why mainline trains don't need tripcocks.

Wrong. The line is owned by LUL. It used to be owned by British Rail
but on rail privatisation ownership passed to LUL. East Putney to
Wilbledon is still signalled by Network Rail under a contract with
LUL, and I believe Network Rail also handles the power supply. I
understand that maintenance on the line is carried out by the SSL
infraco, Metronet.

However I don't know which signalling rules apply down that line (i.e.
LUL or Network Rail).

Having signalling handled by Network Rail does suggest that some
element of co-ordination is possible in handling the District line
service as well as the diverted SWT trains.



Its possible there isn't AWS - perhaps that explains the 30 mph limit?

Absolutely no idea on that issue.

Network Rail rules apply. This may change (or at least the signalling
operators) later on under the SSR upgrade though.

LUL did once try to get them to switch off their traction current to
protect an over run of engineering work in the Parsons Green area and
were laughed off!

The NR trains operate at lower speeds due to less responsive braking
on their rolling stock.

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:


At least two SWT trains routinely run along that stretch late at
night/ early in the morning.

The line was BR-owned until 1994, with BR signalling from before then,
surely?

Alongside the down platform at Southfields there is newly installed NR
signalling equipment visible. Clearly renewals are to a NR design, whoever
is actually doing them...

Paul S

In article ,
() wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message

...

The "Northern City line" in a large diameter tube that runs up to
Drayton Park has been in mainline railway ownership since it
transferred from LU to British Rail in 1975 or 76.

The Northern City Line is another story, however. I have seen
policemen operating as trains pull into Moorgate. I'm not saying
that the whole segment between Moorgate and Drayton Park is
equipped with stoparms, because I simply don't know, but I did see
them at Moorgate.

Is it possible that they simply left the policemen at Moorgate when
NR took over? It would be surprising to see them working after all
these years.

BR took over the GNC before TPWS was invented. Given what happened at
Moorgate immediately before BR took over there, it is somewhat
unsurprising that the dead end tunnel safety system introduced there,
known as Moorgate control, was retained for BR use. Nowadays they would
presumably be able to rely on standard TPWS and could scrap the tripcocks.
When the 313s on the GN come up for replacement (is there even a date
yet?) presumably they will consider updating the signalling at the Cross.

At least two SWT trains routinely run along that stretch late at
night/ early in the morning.

Revenue or non-revenue?

I thought the main use was ECS.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article
,
(chunky munky) wrote:

On Mar 22, 3:22 pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 22 Mar, 10:55, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

wrote in message

Does that part of LUL have AWS (I don't recall seeing it when I
was down there.)? If not, then whar sort of safety back up are
SWT trains using on that segment, lower speeds? AFAIK, SWT
trains are not equipped with tripcocks.

At the risk of restarting an old thread, although there are
tripcocks for LU trains, the line is still signalled and owned by
Network Rail, so I believe that's why mainline trains don't need
tripcocks.

Wrong. The line is owned by LUL. It used to be owned by British Rail
but on rail privatisation ownership passed to LUL. East Putney to
Wilbledon is still signalled by Network Rail under a contract with
LUL, and I believe Network Rail also handles the power supply. I
understand that maintenance on the line is carried out by the SSL
infraco, Metronet.

However I don't know which signalling rules apply down that line
(i.e.
LUL or Network Rail).

Having signalling handled by Network Rail does suggest that some
element of co-ordination is possible in handling the District line
service as well as the diverted SWT trains.

Its possible there isn't AWS - perhaps that explains the 30 mph
limit?

Absolutely no idea on that issue.

Network Rail rules apply. This may change (or at least the signalling
operators) later on under the SSR upgrade though.

LUL did once try to get them to switch off their traction current to
protect an over run of engineering work in the Parsons Green area and
were laughed off!

Mainly because the NR traction current feed limit is at Putney Bridge?

The NR trains operate at lower speeds due to less responsive braking
on their rolling stock.

That makes a lot more sense than the voltage difference given as a reason
earlier. Most of the London area of the Southern runs on 650v too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
(Tom Anderson) wrote:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008, Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

The apparent gradient off the windsor lines is quite something BTW
- I should imagine icy conditions may make things difficult?

The gradient may be more apparent than real. There is quite a
downgrade from Point Peasant

I realise this is south of the river, but that name seems a little
harsh.

Oops! Point Pleasant, of course. Though it was something of a misnomer if
you knew the area around it, a gasworks and heavily polluted river
Wandle!

I should have made clear that the downgrade from there is on the main
Windsor lines

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article ,
() wrote:

"Richard J." wrote in message
m...

The answer is that the line is fitted with TPWS as well as the
LUL trainstop system. At each signal, there is a TPWS loop and a
trainstop.

I thought there might be something like that. I'm also guessing
that it would be illegal to have tracks not equipped with some sort
of redundant saftey system in potential revenue service.

I thought TPWS was installed on a risk-of-SPADs basis, so not on all
stretches of all passengers lines?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
() wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote in message

At least two SWT trains routinely run along that stretch late at
night/ early in the morning.

Revenue or non-revenue?

I thought the main use was ECS.

Yes. But the service trains that use it a

0454 SuX Basingstoke - Waterloo
0105 Waterloo - Southampton Central
0042 Waterloo - Strawberry Hill

timed so that no-one actually sees them...

Paul