On Thu, 15 May 2008 00:02:59 +0100, Ross wrote:

On Wed, 14 May 2008 15:55:36 -0700 (PDT), MIG wrote in
,
seen in uk.transport.buses:

[...]
If they were asked if they prefer to stand for the duration of their
bus ride they might not say "yes".

I'm not honestly sure about this one.

I've not travelled on many bendies in London, but I've noticed a
tendency (as on the tube) for people to stand rather than sit if
they're only going one or two stops, even if there are plenty of seats
available - and I'm not referring to standing rather than sitting next
to someone, but to standing rather than having a pair of seats to
oneself.

Well yes but that also happens on double deckers all the time - in fact
probably more now than in the past for some reason.

My regular morning bus picks up a lot of people who get off at the first
tube station. When I board there is rarely a seat available downstairs
but there are seats upstairs (assuming it is not late!). We often get to
the point two stops further on where no one else can squeeze on
downstairs despite there being seats upstairs or else the bus just goes
straight past the stop. While I can understand the logic of not wishing
to go upstairs for a few minutes it is actually no real hardship and
probably preferable to being pushed, shoved and stomped on by all the
other people trying to cram in downstairs.

Sometimes the driver will use the automated I-Bus announcement to advise
seats are available on the upper deck. I've read somewhere that bendy
buses have the same message in their system 8-))

I think the truth is that human behaviour is far too complex for any
simplistic survey (or Usenet thread!) to encompass.

Possibly - in terms of justification for personal decisions to stand or
not to stand. The simple point is that a bit more effort should be made
by drivers to "persuade" people to go upstairs. If passenger growth
continues then crowding will get worse.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
"Chris Read" wrote in message

"Neil Williams" wrote:

Read in the Lite today that Moir Lockhead is warning Boris about the
plan to reintroduce Routemasters - and is trying to peddle him the
"ftr", which is, umm, a glorified bendy bus.

Will First never learn? In my experience, their buses in London are
some of the oldest, dirtiest and most poorly-maintained. Not a good
start.

He also said that bus passengers and operators like the bendies -
it's other road users (ie cabbies and cyclists, I guess) who detest
them.
Now the election is over, I fully expect this 'new Routemaster' stuff
to be quietly shelved. This would represent the biggest U-turn
since.....well......Ken promised never to scrap the Routemaster!

I don't think it was just a campaign slogan -- Boris is a cyclist who
nurses a personal hatred for bendy buses. It's why it was just about the
first policy he was able to articulate, quite a while ago, long before he
was supplied with a complete manifesto. While we're not likely to get
anything that resembles a good old RM (unless he actually gets some of
them back from the scrapyard), I think he really does want to get the
bendies off London's streets.
Tonights Standard reporting a bit of back pedalling:

http://tinyurl.com/5rn3ug

"The Mayor's plans for a newgeneration Routemaster may not happen, his new
transport boss admitted today.
Kulveer Ranger, Boris Johnson's director of transport policy, said that a
design competition would be launched - but if no bid was good enough they
would look again at the pledge.
He added that although Mr Johnson is very keen to bring in a new-style bus
in place of bendy buses, they would not press ahead with the idea for the
sake of it."

Paul S

On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:36:02 +0100, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Tonights Standard reporting a bit of back pedalling:

http://tinyurl.com/5rn3ug

"The Mayor's plans for a newgeneration Routemaster may not happen, his new
transport boss admitted today.
Kulveer Ranger, Boris Johnson's director of transport policy, said that a
design competition would be launched - but if no bid was good enough they
would look again at the pledge.
He added that although Mr Johnson is very keen to bring in a new-style bus
in place of bendy buses, they would not press ahead with the idea for the
sake of it."

Sounds right for a design competition - unlike a football league, for
instance, there's no necessity for there to be a winner.

On May 15, 5:22*pm, Boltar wrote:
On May 15, 5:18 pm, MIG wrote:

In order to obey the Highway Code, a bendy bus driver has the more
difficult task of judging whether there is (or is about to be) a full
bendy length of space beyond a crossing or junction. *The difficulty
of the judgement is increased by the type of bus.

Like I said , its down to the driver. HGV drivers can just the space
correctly (most of the time) because they're well trained. If a bus
driver can't (or doesn't care if he blocks the junction) then either
their training leaves something to be desired or they're not suitable
for the job in the first place.

But if the task is made more difficult, they are still more likely to
get it wrong, whether that's incompetence or not.

If there were as many HGVs as bendy buses going down Oxford Street and
round Trafalgar Sqare, I expect it would cause a lot of problems.

"Ivor Jones" wrote:

Chris Read wrote

Agreed. But no more Tridents, please........

I'm sure I'm going to regret saying this, but why..? From a driver's point
of view, I quite like the Tridents. They're certainly better than a lot of
the alternatives, particularly the Volvo B7's which I detest with a
passion.

I'm not a very good (road) traveller, and for some reason, I tend to feel
quite nauseous on Tridents if it's warm or if I'm a bit under the weather
anyway.

The secondary reason is the grab rail on the top deck front windscreen,
which is positioned right in my eyeline - a minor irritant, I know, but a
persistent one.

As a passenger, I prefer most Volvo products. Whatever they use on the
number 11 in London is a fine bus - much higher quality feel than the
Tridents.

I like whatever they use on the number 13s as well - Scanias, I think.
Pretty rapid machines when driven enthusiastically!

Chris

On Thu, 15 May 2008 08:55:06 -0700 (PDT), Boltar
wrote:

Thats down to bad drivers, not the bus itself. Using that logic all
HGVs should be replaced by 7.5 tonners. As an occasional bus user I
much prefer bendy buses - they're easy to get on and off and theres
usually plenty of room. Not so on a double decker trying to scoop up
the same amount of people and thats before you have to worry about old
grannies trying to clamber up and down the hopelessly narrow stairway.

MX of deckers is that the grannies sit downstairs, leaving upstairs
free for those wishing to travel a long way and sit down. The
Wrightbus design with the upstairs extractor fan is by far the best
design in London, and I hope that (barring any special design for
Boris) this becomes the standard. The East Lancs variety (favoured by
Transdev) aren't quite as nice, and the Dennis Enviro just feels cheap
and crap (like most Dennis products, it would seem).

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:43:14 +0100, James Farrar
wrote:

Sounds right for a design competition - unlike a football league, for
instance, there's no necessity for there to be a winner.

It does seem a very sensible view.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Neil Williams" wrote:
Ross wrote:

I've not travelled on many bendies in London, but I've noticed a
tendency (as on the tube) for people to stand rather than sit if
they're only going one or two stops, even if there are plenty of seats
available - and I'm not referring to standing rather than sitting next
to someone, but to standing rather than having a pair of seats to
oneself.

I must admit to doing that on both deckers and bendies, especially if
carrying any kind of rucksack or similar (which I usually am) as it
saves, on a quiet bus, having to remove it.

Same here. Conversely, when I first started work I had a briefcase, and then
I tended to sit down where possible.

Perhaps rucksacks are responsible for the tendency towards 'standeeism'. On
the other hand, the wheelchair/pushchair bay gives a ready-made standing
area which didn't exist on older buses.

Chris

On Thu, 15 May 2008 20:18:30 +0100, "Chris Read"
wrote:

Perhaps rucksacks are responsible for the tendency towards 'standeeism'. On
the other hand, the wheelchair/pushchair bay gives a ready-made standing
area which didn't exist on older buses.

True. The nearest convenient alternative on a Routemaster is the
side-facing seats by the door, but as I have long legs if I sit there
they tend to get in the way.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

In message , Chris Read
writes

I'm not a very good (road) traveller, and for some reason, I tend to feel
quite nauseous on Tridents if it's warm or if I'm a bit under the weather
anyway.

The secondary reason is the grab rail on the top deck front windscreen,
which is positioned right in my eyeline - a minor irritant, I know, but a
persistent one.

As a passenger, I prefer most Volvo products. Whatever they use on the
number 11 in London is a fine bus - much higher quality feel than the
Tridents.

I like whatever they use on the number 13s as well - Scanias, I think.
Pretty rapid machines when driven enthusiastically!

Surely that's a function of the body builder rather than the chassis?
They can all have bodies built by Alexander Dennis as they could be East
Lancs or Wright. Coincidentally, most Volvos in London are bodied by
Wright.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)