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-   -   How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s? (https://www.londonbanter.co.uk/london-transport/6803-how-much-ticket-underground-60s.html)

Roland Perry June 22nd 08 09:38 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message , at 06:13:27 on
Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size


Yes, they are.
--
Roland Perry

Jeremy Double June 22nd 08 10:44 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Charles Ellson wrote:

Aren't US banknotes also all the same size


Yes, it's a pain in the a*se when you're looking in your wallet to find
the right notes to pay with...

--
Jeremy Double {real address, include nospam}
Rail and transport photos at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmdoubl...7603834894248/

Graham Murray June 22nd 08 10:57 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 06:13:27
on Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson
remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size


Yes, they are.


Does the USA not have disability discrimination legislation? Having all
banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against blind people.

Chris Tolley June 22nd 08 12:03 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Graham Murray wrote:

Having all banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against
blind people.


Not really. There are plenty of situations in life where one group of
people is advantaged/disadvantaged with respect to another. It's only
discriminatory if it is done either with the desire of causing a
specific outcome of that kind, or else in contravention of relevant
rules that are designed to avoid such an outcome.

That is not to say that the blind and those who lobby on their behalf
couldn't make sufficient noise to shame the US Federal Reserve into
doing something about it.
--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p13857120.html
(20 309 at Morecambe, 6 Apr 2005)

Paul Oter June 22nd 08 12:31 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Jun 22, 11:57*am, Graham Murray wrote:
Roland Perry writes:
In message , at 06:13:27
on Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson
remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size


Yes, they are.


Does the USA not have disability discrimination legislation? Having all
banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against blind people.


Yes. A US Federal appeals court decided exactly that last month.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7412051.stm

PaulO

Jishnu Mukerji June 22nd 08 12:45 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Stephen Sprunk wrote:

Hmmm, Canadian bank machines routinely dish out our $50's, though the
machines are usually identified and at locations where "regular" $20
dispensers are also available.


US ATMs generally only dispense $20 bills; it makes them simpler and
requires less refilling if there's only one bill type. There are still
a few that give out $5 and $10 bills as well, though they're rare. Ones
in casinos will give you $100 bills, since they accept them at the
tables and that's where they want you spending your money. I've never
seen a US ATM dispense $50 bills.


There are at least 3 ATMs within a 5 mile radius of my residence that
dish out $50 bills. So they do exist.

Chris Tolley June 22nd 08 02:12 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
John Mara wrote:

Chris Tolley wrote:
Graham Murray wrote:

Having all banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against
blind people.


Not really. There are plenty of situations in life where one group of
people is advantaged/disadvantaged with respect to another. It's only
discriminatory if it is done either with the desire of causing a
specific outcome of that kind, or else in contravention of relevant
rules that are designed to avoid such an outcome.


In a 2 to 1 decision, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals
for the District of Columbia Circuit said the existing currency system
violates the federal Rehabilitation Act. The judges said that the
Treasury Department must find a way to accommodate the needs of the
visually impaired.


I didn't know that the Rehabiltation act had such provisions; I thought
it was just concerned with employment and communications. I suspect that
in a typical lawyerly way some unrelated provision has been claimed to
have been written with the intention of conferring such rights.

Still, it is progress of a sort, no matter how it has been arrived at.

--
http://gallery120232.fotopic.net/p14104754.html
(43 101 at Peterborough, 3 Sep 1979)

No Name June 22nd 08 04:52 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
"Graham Murray" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 06:13:27
on Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson
remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size


Yes, they are.


Does the USA not have disability discrimination legislation? Having all
banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against blind people.


I thought that the US Federal Reserve had added colour to their notes in
recent years, which should help. One would think that they would also put
some form of braille on notes to help delineate. A least one European states
that I can think of had been doing that well before the euro was introduced.

Don't euro notes have a form of braille? I can't remember off hand.



Tim Roll-Pickering June 22nd 08 05:54 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
wrote:

I have, however, had problems with Northern Irish notes - even from
places that don't give Scottish notes a second glance!


Is that because there was that big bank heist aboiut 3 1/2 years ago? I
remember seeing signs in pubs months afterwards that Northern Irish notes
would not be accepted.


This was late 2005 but no-one ever said anything about that. I suspect it
was more ignorance of the different notes.



Graeme Wall June 22nd 08 06:16 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message
wrote:

"Graham Murray" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 06:13:27
on Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson
remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size

Yes, they are.


Does the USA not have disability discrimination legislation? Having all
banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against blind people.


I thought that the US Federal Reserve had added colour to their notes in
recent years, which should help. One would think that they would also put
some form of braille on notes to help delineate. A least one European
states that I can think of had been doing that well before the euro was
introduced.


Holland.


Don't euro notes have a form of braille? I can't remember off hand.



Strangely enough, no.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

No Name June 22nd 08 06:56 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
In message
wrote:

"Graham Murray" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 06:13:27
on Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson
remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size

Yes, they are.

Does the USA not have disability discrimination legislation? Having all
banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against blind people.


I thought that the US Federal Reserve had added colour to their notes in
recent years, which should help. One would think that they would also put
some form of braille on notes to help delineate. A least one European
states that I can think of had been doing that well before the euro was
introduced.


Holland.


That's right. But didn't Finland and Germany have something as well?

Don't euro notes have a form of braille? I can't remember off hand.



Strangely enough, no.


That is strange.




Andrew Price June 22nd 08 07:08 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:08:27 GMT, "Richard J."
wrote:

In France, most cards are debit cards, and it's true that credit cards are
used less than in the UK.


Technically speaking, you are right, of course, but most people refer
to their Visa card as a "carte de crédit", even though it isn't.

The question to Rian (who anyway is in Belgium)


I don't think there was ever any doubt about that.

should be "Wouldn't it have been easier to pay with a debit card?" (rather
than withdrawing unusual amounts of cash from his bank).


Agreed.

Roland Perry June 22nd 08 07:30 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message , at 17:52:02 on Sun, 22
Jun 2008, remarked:
I thought that the US Federal Reserve had added colour to their notes in
recent years, which should help.


I've seen some very pale pink $20 notes. You'd hardly notice it without
the contrast with older cream-coloured ones. Are other denominations
getting different tints?
--
Roland Perry

Graeme Wall June 22nd 08 07:34 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message
wrote:

[snip]
A least one European
states that I can think of had been doing that well before the euro was
introduced.


Holland.


That's right. But didn't Finland and Germany have something as well?


Not that I'm aware of.


Don't euro notes have a form of braille? I can't remember off hand.



Strangely enough, no.


That is strange.


Very, it surprised me. I suppose TPTB are relying on blind people being able
to identify the notes by the size.


--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

A R:nen June 22nd 08 08:18 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Graeme Wall writes:
In message
wrote:


That's right. But didn't Finland and Germany have something as well?


Not that I'm aware of.


Finnish banknotes (all the same size) didn't have actual braille but
rather an easily distinguishable pattern of large rings in raised
print specific for each denomination (from one ring in the FIM 10 to
five in the FIM 1000). For instance Estonian banknotes (also all the
same size, and practically the same size as the old Finnish ones) have
similar features indicated with dots and dashes.

Charles Ellson June 22nd 08 08:53 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:34:11 +0100, Graeme Wall
wrote:

In message
wrote:

[snip]
A least one European
states that I can think of had been doing that well before the euro was
introduced.

Holland.


That's right. But didn't Finland and Germany have something as well?


Not that I'm aware of.


Don't euro notes have a form of braille? I can't remember off hand.



Strangely enough, no.


That is strange.


Very, it surprised me. I suppose TPTB are relying on blind people being able
to identify the notes by the size.

Size, colour and large numbers seem to be the only official aids for
those with poor eyesight :-
http://www.euro.gov.uk/eurobanknotes.asp

Graeme Wall June 22nd 08 08:57 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message
(A R:nen) wrote:

Graeme Wall writes:
In message
wrote:


That's right. But didn't Finland and Germany have something as well?


Not that I'm aware of.


Finnish banknotes (all the same size) didn't have actual braille but
rather an easily distinguishable pattern of large rings in raised
print specific for each denomination (from one ring in the FIM 10 to
five in the FIM 1000). For instance Estonian banknotes (also all the
same size, and practically the same size as the old Finnish ones) have
similar features indicated with dots and dashes.


Never actually come across those, thanks for the information. Just makes it
more surprising that Euros don't.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html

Stephen Sprunk June 23rd 08 01:55 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
wrote:
"Graham Murray" wrote in message
...
Roland Perry writes:

In message , at 06:13:27
on Sun, 22 Jun 2008, Charles Ellson
remarked:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size
Yes, they are.

Does the USA not have disability discrimination legislation? Having all
banknotes the same size is surely discrimination against blind people.


I thought that the US Federal Reserve had added colour to their notes in
recent years, which should help.


The color (added in 2004) really doesn't help much in practice, since
most of the bills still in circulation don't have it and thus the colors
haven't been absorbed into the public consciousness. Heck, I still
today frequently get "small portrait" bills (last printed in 1993-1995)
in addition to "large portrait" non-color ones (last printed in
2001-2003). And that's in the US, in the same city as a Federal Reserve
Bank; over two thirds of US currency circulates _outside_ the US, where
banks aren't actively replacing old bills with new ones.

You can see images of all modern US currency in its various forms at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Note

So far, no color $100s have been printed, but that's planned. The $1
bill didn't get a "large portrait" version in the 1990s because they
were supposed to be removed from circulation and replaced with $1 coins,
but special interest groups (mainly vending machine makers/owners) got
that postponed indefinitely. The $2 bill wasn't redesigned simply due
to apathy; there aren't enough of them to matter (less than 1% of all US
bills), and most are kept as collectibles, not circulating currency,
though that might change if/when plans for withdrawing the $1 bill are
finally put into action.

One would think that they would also put some form of braille on notes
to help delineate.


That's tough with our bills since they're cloth (high grade denim,
technically) and not that nearly indestructible plastic/paper stuff used
for most other countries' notes. Braille and cloth don't mix well; even
if you could print the bills with the feature, it'd be ruined after a
few weeks/months in circulation.

S

Stephen Sprunk June 23rd 08 01:58 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Charles Ellson wrote:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?


They're all the same size, yes. Folks do occasionally make mistakes,
but that's not a major concern (other than for the blind) in bill design
compared to anti-counterfeiting features.

One of the old tricks was to take a $1 bill, bleach the ink off, and
print a $100 bill's faces on it. This got around the checks specific to
the material used, since all bills until recently had identical cloth.
Newer bills have security features that prevent that -- if cashiers
bother looking for them.

S

Free Lunch June 23rd 08 02:24 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:58:52 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Charles Ellson wrote:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?


They're all the same size, yes. Folks do occasionally make mistakes,
but that's not a major concern (other than for the blind) in bill design
compared to anti-counterfeiting features.


But, of course, the Fed was told by the courts that their current
methods are a violation of the law because they don't take the blind
into account.

One of the old tricks was to take a $1 bill, bleach the ink off, and
print a $100 bill's faces on it. This got around the checks specific to
the material used, since all bills until recently had identical cloth.
Newer bills have security features that prevent that -- if cashiers
bother looking for them.

S


Dik T. Winter June 23rd 08 11:08 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In article writes:
....
The question to Rian (who anyway is in Belgium)
should be "Wouldn't it have been easier to pay with a debit card?" (rather
than withdrawing unusual amounts of cash from his bank).


Agreed.


At least in the Netherlands there is a maximum amount that can be payed with
a debit card. And that maximum is independent of the saldo on your account.
When I bought a computer quite some time ago (and, no, it was not a cheap
one), the total amount exceeded this maximum (DFL 2000 at that time), so I
had to pay the remainder by credit card.
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

No Name June 23rd 08 06:43 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
"Stephen Sprunk" wrote in message
...

That's tough with our bills since they're cloth (high grade denim,
technically) and not that nearly indestructible plastic/paper stuff used
for most other countries' notes. Braille and cloth don't mix well; even
if you could print the bills with the feature, it'd be ruined after a few
weeks/months in circulation.


Will Britain or the Eurozone ever get polymer notes, I wonder?




Neil Williams June 23rd 08 06:57 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:08:40 GMT, "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

At least in the Netherlands there is a maximum amount that can be payed with
a debit card. And that maximum is independent of the saldo on your account.
When I bought a computer quite some time ago (and, no, it was not a cheap
one), the total amount exceeded this maximum (DFL 2000 at that time), so I
had to pay the remainder by credit card.


With prior notification to your bank, why have one? I found a (Visa)
debit card to be an extremely convenient way of paying just over
gbp7,000 for a car a few years ago, certainly compared to the risk of
cash or the cost and inconvenience of a banker's cheque. I couldn't
have paid by credit card then paid it off as my card limit at the time
was way below that.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Roland Perry June 23rd 08 07:12 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message , at 18:57:16 on Mon,
23 Jun 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
I couldn't have paid by credit card then paid it off as my card limit
at the time was way below that.


Couldn't you over-pay the credit card, then use that positive balance?
--
Roland Perry

Neil Williams June 23rd 08 07:23 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:12:01 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:57:16 on Mon,
23 Jun 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
I couldn't have paid by credit card then paid it off as my card limit
at the time was way below that.


Couldn't you over-pay the credit card, then use that positive balance?


Didn't see the point when I could use a debit card - but I believe
some credit card companies frown on the practice of loading cards
deliberately.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Roland Perry June 23rd 08 07:48 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In message , at 19:23:17 on Mon,
23 Jun 2008, Neil Williams remarked:
I believe some credit card companies frown on the practice of loading
cards deliberately.


That's a combination of having to send you a statement if there's a
positive balance, but not if it's zero; and some money laundering
concerns. I've seen some suggestions that "loaded" credit cards should
be declared as if they were cash at those international borders where
declaring cash (above some limit) is required. Whereas a debit card, or
un-used credit limit, do not count as "cash" in those circumstances.
--
Roland Perry

Nobody June 24th 08 12:27 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:11:30 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

Nobody wrote:
This is decidedly different than what happens to (relatively rare) USD2
bills, which banks accept without comment but only give out to customers
upon specific request. Banks also hoard USD50 and USD100 bills, but
they'll ask if you want them if your withdrawal is large ("Do you want
that in hundreds or twenties?").

Hoard $50's?


Yes, same reason as $100 bills: retailers won't take them, so most
customers don't want them. It makes little sense since the same
retailers will happily take a thick stack of $20s, which can be just as
easily counterfeited, but that's how it is.

Another knock against the $50 bill is people don't see them often, since
they're relatively useless (people either have $100s or $20s), so
they're not comfortable with them. If people can't figure out if a
somewhat more common $100 bill is fake, they'll never be able to figure
it out for a less common $50 bill...

$2 bills have a worse problem, incidentally. Many people have never
seen one in their entire lives -- or even know they exist -- and they
look different than all the other bills. Many clerks won't take them
without checking with a manager; if the manager hasn't seen one before
(which is fairly rare -- they _are_ still in circulation), they may
refuse to accept it even though the potential loss from a counterfeit is
negligible.

Hmmm, Canadian bank machines routinely dish out our $50's, though the
machines are usually identified and at locations where "regular" $20
dispensers are also available.


US ATMs generally only dispense $20 bills; it makes them simpler and
requires less refilling if there's only one bill type. There are still
a few that give out $5 and $10 bills as well, though they're rare. Ones
in casinos will give you $100 bills, since they accept them at the
tables and that's where they want you spending your money. I've never
seen a US ATM dispense $50 bills.

Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?


Canadian bills are the same size, and although they're highly
colour-contrasted, that wouldn't immediately help a sight-challenged
person.

There is a series of raised "tactile features" in the top right
quadrant of Canadian bills recognized by the Canadian National
Institute for the Blind (the CNIB -- or "Seein' Eye Bee"! Yeah, even
sight-challenged have a sense of humour) though these are not Braille
symbols.

As for "sandwiching", ah, would any bank worth its mettle accept a
"bundle" of notes simply on its outside face notes?

As an aside on the bundle argument, pity the poor barperson/shopkeeper
in Zimbabwe having to accept a Stack of Zim dollars to buy a beer
these days...



Peter Campbell Smith[_2_] June 24th 08 10:14 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
wrote in
:

Will Britain or the Eurozone ever get polymer notes, I wonder?


One might be pedantic and point out that the current notes are largely made
of cellulose, a polymer of glucose. It has the advantage of being readily
renewable and degradeable, unlike oil-based polymers.

Peter

--
Peter Campbell Smith ~ London ~ pjcs00 (a) gmail.com

Dik T. Winter June 24th 08 11:08 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
In article (Neil Williams) writes:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 11:08:40 GMT, "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:
At least in the Netherlands there is a maximum amount that can be payed with
a debit card. And that maximum is independent of the saldo on your account.
When I bought a computer quite some time ago (and, no, it was not a cheap
one), the total amount exceeded this maximum (DFL 2000 at that time), so I
had to pay the remainder by credit card.


With prior notification to your bank, why have one?


How can I give my bank a prior notification that I decide to buy something?

I found a (Visa)
debit card to be an extremely convenient way of paying just over
gbp7,000 for a car a few years ago, certainly compared to the risk of
cash or the cost and inconvenience of a banker's cheque.


Also credit cards are limited in the maximum amount and I think those
gbp7,000 would exceed my limit.

Note moreover that in the Netherlands most people do not have credit
cards for two of reasons:
(1) It costs money to get a credit card
(2) It is possible that a retailer asks you to pay more if you pay
by credit card
(1) is not so strong for a debit card because it costs less than a
credit card (something like EUR 5 a year for a debit card against
EUR 30 a year for a credit card). (2) is not necessary for debit cards
because the cost for the retailer is *much* less than with a credit card
(a few cent for each transaction vs. 3 to 5 % of the amount of the
transaction).
--
dik t. winter, cwi, kruislaan 413, 1098 sj amsterdam, nederland, +31205924131
home: bovenover 215, 1025 jn amsterdam, nederland;
http://www.cwi.nl/~dik/

Neil Williams June 24th 08 07:05 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:08:59 GMT, "Dik T. Winter"
wrote:

How can I give my bank a prior notification that I decide to buy something?


I did it by telephone. A (UK) account can be flagged to allow a
transaction that might otherwise be declined as suspicious. There's
no guarantee the transaction would fail, but it might have done.

In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.

Also credit cards are limited in the maximum amount and I think those
gbp7,000 would exceed my limit.


Which is why I used a debit card!

Note moreover that in the Netherlands most people do not have credit
cards for two of reasons:
(1) It costs money to get a credit card


In the UK it doesn't, or not unless you borrow on it.

(2) It is possible that a retailer asks you to pay more if you pay
by credit card


Sometimes this happens in the UK, but not all that often. Minimum
charges by card (credit and debit) are rather more common.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Stephen Sprunk June 24th 08 09:01 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Free Lunch wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:58:52 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Charles Ellson wrote:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?

They're all the same size, yes. Folks do occasionally make mistakes,
but that's not a major concern (other than for the blind) in bill design
compared to anti-counterfeiting features.


But, of course, the Fed was told by the courts that their current
methods are a violation of the law because they don't take the blind
into account.


That decision is barely a month old, so it hardly had any effect on the
last 80 years of bill design. It's not clear what, if anything, will be
done in response. It'll probably still be tied up for a few more years
on appeal to the Supreme Court, and I bet Congress will do something
about it (i.e. exemption from ADA) by then on request from the Fed and
the Treasury.

Still, I'm sure something will be done to correct the problem
eventually. It _is_ a minor annoyance to the rest of us, but the costs
of changing our currency, particularly in a short time period, are
tremendous.

S

Matthew Geier[_4_] June 24th 08 09:35 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 19:43:17 +0100, hounslow3 wrote:



Will Britain or the Eurozone ever get polymer notes, I wonder?


When the Australian Mint patent expires probably. I've heard a story
that the Eurozone investigated using Australian style plastic notes, but
the Australian Mint holds the process very close and wouldn't release the
process for use in Europe. If the Eurozone wanted plastic notes, they
would have to be printed in Australia.

So the only countries that currently have plastic notes all get the
Australian mint to print them for them, so take up of these types of
notes has been limited to smaller Pacific rim counties that don't have
their own currency printing facilities or don't mind 'out sourcing' it to
Australia.




Charles Ellson June 24th 08 11:45 PM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:01:24 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

Free Lunch wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:58:52 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Charles Ellson wrote:
Aren't US banknotes also all the same size thus making it easier to
accidentally sandwich a high value note in amongst low value notes ?
They're all the same size, yes. Folks do occasionally make mistakes,
but that's not a major concern (other than for the blind) in bill design
compared to anti-counterfeiting features.


But, of course, the Fed was told by the courts that their current
methods are a violation of the law because they don't take the blind
into account.


That decision is barely a month old, so it hardly had any effect on the
last 80 years of bill design. It's not clear what, if anything, will be
done in response. It'll probably still be tied up for a few more years
on appeal to the Supreme Court, and I bet Congress will do something
about it (i.e. exemption from ADA) by then on request from the Fed and
the Treasury.

Still, I'm sure something will be done to correct the problem
eventually. It _is_ a minor annoyance to the rest of us, but the costs
of changing our currency, particularly in a short time period, are
tremendous.

A start could be made by use of distinctive colours and
designs/symbols on a sufficiently large section of each note (like
Bank of England notes) but without departing greatly from the basic
green note. Changing sizes (if actually deemed necessary) could be
left until later with the process spread over a number of years.

Stephen Sprunk June 25th 08 12:34 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Charles Ellson wrote:
A start could be made by use of distinctive colours and
designs/symbols on a sufficiently large section of each note (like
Bank of England notes) but without departing greatly from the basic
green note. Changing sizes (if actually deemed necessary) could be
left until later with the process spread over a number of years.


The newest notes _do_ have distinctive coloring; for older notes a
cursory glance (by someone with normal vision) will distinguish between
them due to the different portraits, even the monochromatic ones. The
"large portrait" redesign in the 1990s solved most of the problems for
merely "vision impaired" folks, and color took care of the rest.

The issue at hand, though, is that neither of those things help the
blind figure out what they're holding; you need different sizes,
braille, or something similar that can be distinguished solely by touch,
and as of today US notes have nothing helpful in that area -- they all
feel exactly the same.

I recall some notes I had a while back when traveling (FRF? NLG? AUD?
NZD?) had clear sections that one could feel and, if given a few
seconds, determine the shape and thus what denomination the note was.
That's an interesting possibility as an alternative to different sizes
or braille. However, I don't know if that would be compatible with the
US's use of cloth notes...

S

Charles Ellson June 25th 08 02:19 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:34:08 -0500, Stephen Sprunk
wrote:

Charles Ellson wrote:
A start could be made by use of distinctive colours and
designs/symbols on a sufficiently large section of each note (like
Bank of England notes) but without departing greatly from the basic
green note. Changing sizes (if actually deemed necessary) could be
left until later with the process spread over a number of years.


The newest notes _do_ have distinctive coloring; for older notes a
cursory glance (by someone with normal vision) will distinguish between
them due to the different portraits, even the monochromatic ones. The
"large portrait" redesign in the 1990s solved most of the problems for
merely "vision impaired" folks, and color took care of the rest.

Ah! I don't get many in my change "over here" so I missed that
happening. ;-)

The issue at hand, though, is that neither of those things help the
blind figure out what they're holding; you need different sizes,
braille, or something similar that can be distinguished solely by touch,
and as of today US notes have nothing helpful in that area -- they all
feel exactly the same.

I recall some notes I had a while back when traveling (FRF? NLG? AUD?
NZD?) had clear sections that one could feel and, if given a few
seconds, determine the shape and thus what denomination the note was.
That's an interesting possibility as an alternative to different sizes
or braille. However, I don't know if that would be compatible with the
US's use of cloth notes...

BoE notes have holograms integrated into the (made from rag IIRC)
paper so mixing materials doesn't seem to be a problem. With Braille I
suspect the difficulty lies with the inconstant thickness resulting or
the eventual flattening of the "dots". Punching holes in the notes is
probably not an option so relying on textural differences seems to be
the remaining option if the size and/or colour can't be changed.
Possibly a variation on the BoE holograms could provide textural
"dots" but how many different denominations of dollar note would need
to be identified ?

Phil Wieland June 25th 08 07:40 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Matthew Geier wrote:
So the only countries that currently have plastic notes all get the
Australian mint to print them for them, so take up of these types of
notes has been limited to smaller Pacific rim counties that don't have
their own currency printing facilities or don't mind 'out sourcing' it to
Australia.


Doesn't the Isle of Man have plastic notes? Are theirs Australian as well?

Phil

Peter Masson June 25th 08 08:56 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 

"Charles Ellson" wrote

BoE notes have holograms integrated into the (made from rag IIRC)
paper so mixing materials doesn't seem to be a problem. With Braille I
suspect the difficulty lies with the inconstant thickness resulting or
the eventual flattening of the "dots". Punching holes in the notes is
probably not an option so relying on textural differences seems to be
the remaining option if the size and/or colour can't be changed.
Possibly a variation on the BoE holograms could provide textural
"dots" but how many different denominations of dollar note would need
to be identified ?


I'm not sure what features blind people use to distinguish BoE notes, but
apart from different size for different denominations, and the hologram,
they use raised printing. In the past the size of BoE notes have changed
(the white fivers were ginormous, and in the 1960s we got new small pound
notes - didn't we accuse Harold Wilson of shrinking the pound?), though I
suspect that changing the size of notes now would cause difficulties for
cash machines, vending machines that accept notes, etc.

Peter



John B June 25th 08 10:34 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
On 24 Jun, 20:05, (Neil Williams)
wrote:
In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.


It is? I've never done or heard of this, and nor have any of the other
people I've just asked about it...

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

Adrian June 25th 08 10:37 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
John B gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying:

In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.


It is? I've never done or heard of this, and nor have any of the other
people I've just asked about it...


I've never done or had a problem as a result of not doing so - but SWMBO
seems to think that they need to know. God knows why. Mind you, she's
with Barclays, so I really wouldn't put anything past them.

Richard J.[_2_] June 25th 08 11:01 AM

How much was a ticket for the underground in the 60s?
 
Adrian wrote:
John B gurgled happily, sounding much like they
were saying:

In the UK it is also conventional that you notify your bank if you
intend on travelling abroad.


It is? I've never done or heard of this, and nor have any of the
other people I've just asked about it...


I've never done or had a problem as a result of not doing so - but
SWMBO seems to think that they need to know. God knows why. Mind you,
she's with Barclays, so I really wouldn't put anything past them.


In theory, you are more likely to have problems with card purchases abroad
if you don't notify the card issuer, as an unexpected batch of transactions
in a foreign country might be regarded as suspicious (use of cloned card,
etc.). In practice I've never had a problem. Barclaycard do ask customers
to notify them when going abroad, and they'll tell you what the current Visa
exchange rate is. HSBC seem indifferent, and refuse to tell you what the
Mastercard exchange rate is.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)




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