Jamie Thompson wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:47 pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Well, if it becomes packed it might just justify longer trains then

Difficult to have longer trains without a total rebuild of Surrey Quays,
Wapping, and Rotherhithe at least. Which would be on the far too difficult
list unless I'm mistaken. SDO would not be practical in the core part of
the route, so it has been proposed in the past that the deep stations would
close rather than be lengthened.

Paul

Recliner wrote:
"Lüko Willms" wrote in message

Am Mon, 16 Feb 2009 16:42:37 UTC, schrieb
auf uk.railway :

3) I've been reading about this proposed "once-weekly" train from
Ealing Broadway to Wandsworth - the first question that comes to my
untrained mind is, "What in the world good is a once-weekly train
service???"
Going to church or Sunday school?

On Tuesdays?

Well, wouldn't you burn in Hell [1] if you travelled by train on the
/Sunday/?


[1] No, not the one in Norway.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Sweek,

Surely the ELLX from Clapham Junction to Canada Water will be faster
than going into Waterloo and then changing to the Jubilee line - I
mean, the trains all slow down in rush hour in the morning coming into
Waterloo because they have to find an empty platform. And then you've
got that quarter-mile hike to the Jubilee line amongst great masses of
humanity, and then you're on an Underground line which runs slower
than a BR train. But even if it were the same speed, people will
still opt for the ELLX because of the sweat factor, i.e. if you are on
the ELLX then you will be on an air-conditioned train car, and you
won't have to get sweated up in the summer by doing the hike to the
Jubilee line. I agree with you - the ELLX will be jam-packed from Day
One. And that doesn't even consider the fact that if you are
travelling from Clapham Junction to Liverpool Street station that the
ELLX would be a HUGE advantage of the current method of getting there
(i.e. slow train into Waterloo, hike to Waterloo to City line, wait in
line, sweat yourself out while you take the tube to Bank, then you've
got to get to Liverpool Street station on the Central line - makes
more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down
and in an air-conditioned car all the way. I tell you, it will be jam-
packed from Day One. Given that there will only be 4tph, I figure
there won't be any room to get on the ELLX by the first stop it makes
(Queenstown Road) - after all, nobody is going to get OFF at
Queenstown Road. It will be mayhem. And bankers and yuppies will
finally consider the Clapham Junction area to be commutable to the
City, so more of those people (like me) will live in the area and that
will make it even worse. I plan to continue bicycling to Canary Wharf.

More to the point, I bet you dollars to donuts that - once it is up
and running - that if you did a cost-benefit analysis for having a
station/stop at Brixton, it wouldn't be justified. Why? Because the
line will basically be unusable to residents of Brixton during the
morning rush hour - after all, very few people are going to be getting
OFF at Brixton, so there won't be any space for people to get ON. I
figure a lot of the stops are going to be unusable. If figure the
ELLX Phase 2 will basically be a great present for City and Canary
Wharf workers who live around Clapham Junction. Largely unusable for
everyone else (other times, yes, but during morning rush hour, no -
will be 90% used by City workers that get on at Clapham Junction).
The biggest benefit (I think) will be the lessening of traffic at
Waterloo, on the Waterloo & City line, and on the Jubilee line (until
you get to Canada Water).

wrote:

...... Given that there will only be 4tph, I figure
there won't be any room to get on the ELLX by the first stop it makes
(Queenstown Road) - after all, nobody is going to get OFF at
Queenstown Road.

You haven't got the route right - a train leaving CJ for the SLL can't go
through Queenstown Rd, it will have taken the route from CJ Platform 2 down
and under the SW lines and will approach Wansworth Rd via Longhedge
Junctions, the lines on the other side of the SW lines (and underneath the
lines into Victoria).

Paul S

Yes, I stand corrrected - I should have said "Wandsworth Road" and not
"Queenstown Road" (I don't know these stops very well because I don't
use any trains from Clapham Junction to work at the moment) - I WILL
try it out when it first opens in 2012. If I can get a seat each
morning, I will ditch my bicycle and go from Clapham Junction to
Canada Water and then to Canary Wharf.

Sorry for the mistake.

On Feb 16, 9:49*pm, wrote:
On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:

If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Sweek,

makes
more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down
and in an air-conditioned car all the way.

Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout?

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5

On Feb 16, 11:13*pm, EE507 wrote:
On Feb 16, 9:49*pm, wrote:

On Feb 16, 8:47*pm, sweek wrote:

If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

Sweek,

makes
more sense to just take the ELLX to Shoreditch - while sitting down
and in an air-conditioned car all the way.

Sitting? Have you seen the interior layout?

http://www.railwayherald.co.uk/issue...148.pdf#page=5

Man, that's a stinker. Obviously, what is going to happen, is, just
after the last train leaves, people are going to begin gathering at
EXACTLY the right places on the Clapham Junction platform where they
KNOW the door opens, in order to be one of the first ones in to grab a
seat, thus, in order to get a seat the whole way from Clapham to
Shoreditch/Canada Water, one will have to spend 15 minutes standing
anyway (either in the heat, or the freezing cold) - and to get the
seat, one would have to add almost 15 minutes to one's journey (to
make sure you get there in time for when the prior train leaves. What
a stinker! My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph
just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that
it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first
station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible
in order to pack as many people in like sardines. Looks like I'm
going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I
get a seat to sit on the whole way.

wrote

My guess is, the planners knew from the get-go that 4tph
just wouldn't cut it - that that's basically a token service, and that
it is going to be jam-packed from Day One, starting at the first
station (Clapham Junction), so they took out as many seats as possible
in order to pack as many people in like sardines. Looks like I'm
going to stick with bicycling to Canary Wharf - at lesat that way I
get a seat to sit on the whole way.

The existing SLL serevice (Victoria - London Bridge) is half-hourly with
2-coach trains, and even in the peaks most passengers get a seat. I am sure
that the ELLX phase 2b service will be well used, but I wouldn't expect it
to be jam-packed. Off-peak everyone who wants one will get a seat, with
plenty of space for bikes and buggies, while in the peaks passengers who
have to stand will, I would expect, have a reasonable space.

It won't be anything like the quickest route from Clapham Junction to Canary
Wharf (via Canada Water) or the City (via Whitechapel or walk from
Shoreditch High Street) - going via Wazterloo will be much quicker - though
the ELLX route will avoid a Zone 1 fare.

Peter

"sweek" wrote ...
If Clapham Junction to Canary Wharf really is going to be faster than
the via Waterloo route, I think it'll do the line more bad than good
because it will be absolutely packed from opening.

It'll almost certainly be quicker, and that's just one of the 'untapped'
sources of travel that the overground will reveal.

It'll be worth saving details of the proposed service pattern, and comparing
that with what happens within a year or two of opening. I suspect that there
will be increased sercies on sevral sections, and the 'old' East London Line
will be much, much busier that it used to be.

But even the proposed service levels are much higher than the previous
levels, so they may cope!
--

Andrew

"She plays the tuba.
It is the only instrument capable
of imitating a distress call."