In message , at 08:11:21
on Fri, 17 Jul 2009, remarked:
Surely a Boundary Zone 6 ticket is meaningless on Gatwick Express? Does it
stop anywhere near the boundary?

There's no correlation between stopping patterns and BZ tickets.
--
Roland Perry

In message op.uw7nh5p4m4iaeb@dell, at 12:57:31 on Fri, 17 Jul 2009,
Fig remarked:
Go out of the ticket office towards the South Terminal, and shortly
after take a walkway to the right - it has a pair of short travelators
- leading to the shuttle train to the North Terminal.

Thanks Roland. How much time should one allow for the shuttle?

Ten minutes should be sufficient. I think it's supposed to run every
three minutes, but that requires two trains in use. I haven't seen more
than one recently, so you might just miss the train you'll have to wait
for it to go all the way there, and back, and there again.
--
Roland Perry

On Jul 17, 2:25*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 12:49:00 on
Fri, 17 Jul 2009, Paul Scott remarked:

Isn't there a London Terminals *to Gatwick fare?

Only as a travelcard, I think; all the other fares are operator-specific.
Cheapest is the "FCC only".

We did this very recently - and the above is wrong. There's a "Not
Gatwick Express" fare - available on Southern and FCC - in effect it's
"Any Permitted *except* GatEx", so a 'specific operator not allowed'
rather than 'operator-specific' ticket.


Don't forget he is doing London Terminals to Gatwick Return, they don't do
inclusive travelcards that way round anyway...

But one could work the system a little and buy it via TOD (aka
Fasticket) collection. Probably not, admittedly, in time for a journey
this evening! But West Ruislip is a TOD collection point - see:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/statio...inations/tods/


OK... So on the basis that there is supposed to be at least one
interavailable ticket, what is it, starting at the London end?

"Not GatEx" London Terminals to Gatwick, as explained above.

I've just realised the likely explanation for this - I reckon this odd
fare arrangement exists as a result of grandfather rights. As a trial
run for privatisation and competition, GatEx and NSE (or was it
Network South Central by then) were set up to compete against one
another. Prior to this, all Gatwick pax were directed towards GatEx -
I don't think there would have been a price advantage in catching a
slower (non-GatEx) train.

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 13:33:40 +0100, David A Stocks
wrote:

"Fig" wrote in message newsp.uw7ncmbcm4iaeb@dell...
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:41:17 +0100, David A Stocks
wrote:



Thanks David. Just to be sure, ANY PERMITTED includes Gatwick Express?

Yes. BUT, I've just double checked the Conditions of Carriage and it
looks like you can only combine a Travelcard *Season* (i.e. not a
one-day ticket) with a boundary zone ticket. Damn!

Damn! Wasn't going to work anyway because I needed to be at the station
before 10 am to get a discounted travelcard.

--
Fig

On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:41:17 +0100, David A Stocks
wrote:

"Fig" wrote in message newsp.uw7k8eaom4iaeb@dell...
Hi Group,

I have to meet Mrs Fig at Gatwick (North) this evening.
This is not a common journey for me so, seeing as I've got a bit of
time, I thought I'd try and figure out my cheapest option. Wish I'd
never started!

The details:

From: Ruislip Gardens
To: Gatwick (North)
Flight arrives: 8pm
I need 1 return journey and 1 single.
We both have HMF railcards.
Neither of us have any season tickets but do have railcards loaded on
to Oyster for discounted caps.
I can buy an off-peak z1-6 day travelcard for £5 (if the ticket office
is open!)

What would be the cheapest option?

NR website is saying £11.20 for rtn from London Bridge, £14.50 for
return from Victoria and £19.00 for return Gatwick Exp.
I've got no idea about boundary zone 6 to Gatwick prices, but coupled
with a £5 travelcard that must be an option?
This looks like what you need - I reckon a CDR costs £6.50 as an ANY
PERMITTED fare (the NOT GATWICK EXP costs £6.90 more, go figure). At
that price I would just buy two of them, assuming you can also buy two
z1-6 travelcards. If you're buying tix at Gatwick I would get them
*before* meeting the missus.

Bear in mind that on the return journey we'll probably just want to get
on the first London bound train and not want to hang around for a
London Bridge train (I'm not sure what the frequencies are.)
FCC run half hourly at that time of night, but there are complications
due to the central section of the Thameslink route being closed
overnight.

NR planner is saying FCC run every 15 mins from Gatwick till 21:16. I
would hope that Mrs Fig has cleared customs and what-not by then, so I'm
going to travel via London Bridge with PAYG and FCC CDR. TFL journey
planner suggests this route is slightly quicker than via Victoria and
GatEx and it's a fare bit cheaper. ('scuse the pun).

Thanks to all for your thoughts.

--
Fig

On Jul 17, 4:48*pm, Mizter T wrote:
On Jul 17, 2:25*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 12:49:00 on
Fri, 17 Jul 2009, Paul Scott remarked:

Isn't there a London Terminals *to Gatwick fare?

Only as a travelcard, I think; all the other fares are operator-specific.
Cheapest is the "FCC only".

We did this very recently - and the above is wrong. There's a "Not
Gatwick Express" fare - available on Southern and FCC - in effect it's
"Any Permitted *except* GatEx", so a 'specific operator not allowed'
rather than 'operator-specific' ticket.



Don't forget he is doing London Terminals to Gatwick Return, they don't do
inclusive travelcards that way round anyway...

But one could work the system a little and buy it via TOD (aka
Fasticket) collection. Probably not, admittedly, in time for a journey
this evening! But West Ruislip is a TOD collection point - see:http://www..nationalrail.co.uk/stati...inations/tods/



OK... So on the basis that there is supposed to be at least one
interavailable ticket, what is it, starting at the London end?

"Not GatEx" London Terminals to Gatwick, as explained above.

I've just realised the likely explanation for this - I reckon this odd
fare arrangement exists as a result of grandfather rights. As a trial
run for privatisation and competition, GatEx and NSE (or was it
Network South Central by then) were set up to compete against one
another. Prior to this, all Gatwick pax were directed towards GatEx -
I don't think there would have been a price advantage in catching a
slower (non-GatEx) train.

Nothing to do with privatisation, it was the rearrangement before that
when Inter-City was born and took over the non-stop Gatwick service
which had been introduced using the class 73s and rebuilt Mk 2
coaching sets with Hap driving coaches. Gatwick Express fares at a
premium came in in the mid 1980s.

On Jul 17, 2:11*pm, wrote:
In article op.uw7ncmbcm4iaeb@dell, (Fig) wrote:
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:41:17 +0100, David A Stocks
*wrote:

"Fig" wrote in message
newsp.uw7k8eaom4iaeb@dell...
Hi Group,

I have to meet Mrs Fig at Gatwick (North) this evening.
This is not a common journey for me so, seeing as I've got a bit of
time, I thought I'd try and figure out my cheapest option. Wish I'd
never started!

The details:

From: Ruislip Gardens
To: Gatwick (North)
Flight arrives: 8pm
I need 1 return journey and 1 single.
We both have HMF railcards.
Neither of us have any season tickets but do have railcards loaded on
to Oyster for discounted caps.
I can buy an off-peak z1-6 day travelcard for £5 (if the ticket
office is open!)

What would be the cheapest option?

NR website is saying £11.20 for rtn from London Bridge, £14.50 for
return from Victoria and £19.00 for return Gatwick Exp.
I've got no idea about boundary zone 6 to Gatwick prices, but coupled
with a £5 travelcard that must be an option?
This looks like what you need - I reckon a CDR costs £6.50 as an
ANY PERMITTED fare (the NOT GATWICK EXP costs £6.90 more, go
figure). At *that price I would just buy two of them, assuming
you can also buy two *z1-6 travelcards. If you're buying tix at
Gatwick I would get them **before* meeting the missus.

Thanks David. Just to be sure, ANY PERMITTED includes Gatwick Express?
Have just discovered that Mrs Fig is on expenses so will just by
her a *single with the greatest availability.

Surely a Boundary Zone 6 ticket is meaningless on Gatwick Express? Does it
stop anywhere near the boundary?


It doesn't need to, as the Boundary Zone X tickets are only supposed
to be available with season tickets and the rules say that when using
a combination of two tickets, when one is a season, the train doesn't
need to stop at the changeover point. Even if this were not the case,
there is an argument that a ticket with Boundary Zone X on it would
count as a Zonal ticket (two of these can be used in combination), as
it is potential valid by more than one route.

I've used the Gatwick Express several times when I had a Zone 1 and 2
annual travelcard. It was amazing the amount that it saved on the
return fare compared to a ticket from Victoria.

"David A Stocks" wrote in message
...
"Fig" wrote in message newsp.uw7ncmbcm4iaeb@dell...
On Fri, 17 Jul 2009 12:41:17 +0100, David A Stocks
wrote:



Thanks David. Just to be sure, ANY PERMITTED includes Gatwick Express?

Yes. BUT, I've just double checked the Conditions of Carriage and it looks
like you can only combine a Travelcard *Season* (i.e. not a one-day
ticket) with a boundary zone ticket. Damn!


You've read the wrong information. A boundary zone extension is a specific
product (an 'excess fare' in reality) which extends the validity of a zonal
ticket that you already have, so the normal 'combination' rules are not
relevant.

The procedure is definitely ok for day as well as season travelcards. It was
all thoroughly explained in the old Fares Manual section K, unfortunately no
longer online.

Paul S

Andy wrote:

It doesn't need to, as the Boundary Zone X tickets are only supposed
to be available with season tickets and the rules say that when using
a combination of two tickets, when one is a season, the train doesn't
need to stop at the changeover point. Even if this were not the case,
there is an argument that a ticket with Boundary Zone X on it would
count as a Zonal ticket (two of these can be used in combination), as
it is potential valid by more than one route.


I think you are mistaken on the seasons bit. The examples in the (no longer
online) section K of the NFM clearly explan that a BZ to X ticket is a type
of excess, and give a number of examples of use with day travelcards.

Example:

"The holder of a Zone R1234 Peak Day Travelcard wishes to
travel from Richmond to Twyford via London.
Issue an excess fare ticket from Boundary Zone 4 to Twyford."

Paul S

In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

Isn't there a London Terminals *to Gatwick fare?

Only as a travelcard, I think; all the other fares are operator-
specific. Cheapest is the "FCC only".

We did this very recently - and the above is wrong. There's a "Not
Gatwick Express" fare - available on Southern and FCC - in effect
it's
"Any Permitted *except* GatEx", so a 'specific operator not allowed'
rather than 'operator-specific' ticket.

It is still a problem, or rather there is a similar London-Brighton
problem. I had problems getting tickets that allowed me to go:

Day 1: Cambridge-London
Day 2: Clapham Jcn-Brighton
Day 8: Brighton-Cambridge (or Brighton-KXTL,KX-Cambridge)

--
Colin Rosenstiel