Hi folks,

I have a flight at Gatwick at midday tomorrow, which I am planning to
drive to from Islington, N1. My worry is that the tube strike will
make the roads hell. I think I've got 3 options - drive through the
middle of town, which is the most direct route. Or, go out the A13
then around the M25 ... or, finally, go out on the M4 and around the
M25 the other way.

Given I want to get to the airport for 10am, what time do you think
would be a sensible time to leave at given the anticipated higher than
normal levels of traffic? Which route would you take?

If I miss this flight (as I am prone to do!) the Missus will not be
happy!

Cheers,
D

In message
, at
02:09:42 on Wed, 10 Jun 2009, David F remarked:
I have a flight at Gatwick at midday tomorrow, which I am planning to
drive to from Islington, N1. My worry is that the tube strike will
make the roads hell. I think I've got 3 options - drive through the
middle of town, which is the most direct route. Or, go out the A13
then around the M25 ... or, finally, go out on the M4 and around the
M25 the other way.

Walk to Kings Cross, then get the train.

If you are driving I'd allow at least 3 hours, and probably go via
A12/M11/M25.
--
Roland Perry

On Jun 10, 10:09 am, David F wrote:
Hi folks,

I have a flight at Gatwick at midday tomorrow, which I am planning to
drive to from Islington, N1. My worry is that the tube strike will
make the roads hell. I think I've got 3 options - drive through the
middle of town, which is the most direct route. Or, go out the A13
then around the M25 ... or, finally, go out on the M4 and around the
M25 the other way.

Given I want to get to the airport for 10am, what time do you think
would be a sensible time to leave at given the anticipated higher than
normal levels of traffic? Which route would you take?

If I miss this flight (as I am prone to do!) the Missus will not be
happy!

Cheers,
D

Are you mad? Take the Thameslink.
Tim

On Jun 10, 10:54*am, Roland Perry wrote:

In message
, at
02:09:42 on Wed, 10 Jun 2009, David F remarked:

I have a flight at Gatwick at midday tomorrow, which I am planning to
drive to from Islington, N1. My worry is that the tube strike will
make the roads hell. I think I've got 3 options - drive through the
middle of town, which is the most direct route. Or, go out the A13
then around the M25 ... or, finally, go out on the M4 and around the
M25 the other way.

I presume the flight is actually at midday, in which case we're
looking at a 10am-ish arrival at Gatwick, though maybe not if it's a
business class or whatever ticket.


Walk to Kings Cross, then get the train.

Absolutely agreed - and this would certainly be the way to go even if
there wasn't a strike! If luggage is a significant issue, get the bus
(leave plenty of time and don't necessarily count on getting the first
one), or get a lift, or get a minicab (and book it now!). But
otherwise walk - bags on wheels are a neat invention.

For the sake of clarity, the train operated by First Capital Connect,
it's the Thameslink route you want, and this goes from *St Pancras*
station as opposed to the adjacent King's Cross. Make sure you take a
train that's heading to Brighton as opposed to Wimbledon or Sutton (or
indeed Luton or Bedford or wherever!). No doubt it will be busy - but
it's still the best choice. Once you get past London Bridge, I'd think
the bulk of the passengers will have got off the train - so it's just
the central stretch that would be a jam.

(Actually, if there's more space on them then you could take a
Wimbledon or Sutton train as far as Blackfriars, then change for a
Brighton-bound train - that might avoid some of the crush, though I
imagine there will be other commuters who are also changing at
Blackfriars for the short hop to London Bridge.)


If you are driving I'd allow at least 3 hours, and probably go via
A12/M11/M25.

Don't even try it would I think be the best advice!

Nonetheless, I'll entertain the notion for a moment. In general I'm of
the mindset that going round the M25 for journeys such as this is
somewhat absurd - "journeys such as this" being those that - broadly
speaking - start or finish in 'inner London'.

However, with regards to this specific journey - and more generally
journeys to Gatwick - the major impediment is the trek through south
London on the A23 (Brixton, Streatham, Thornton Heath, Purley etc) -
this is fairly slow going at the best of times, during the rush hours
it's always bad, and on a strike day it'll just be worse.

So maybe the A12/M11/M25 route would be preferable. Another route is
the A12 then south through the Blackwall Tunnel, A102 which then turns
into the A2, then out to the M25 at junction 2 near Dartford. A
variation on teh above would be switching from the A2 to the A20 a
short while after the Blackwall Tunnel, then out to the M25 at
junction 3 near Swanley.

Of course the Blackwall Tunnel is busy during the rush hours, though
the predominant traffic flow in the morning is in the northbound
direction so you'd be going the other way (plus ever since the tidal
flow system was abandoned in the Tunnel southbound traffic gets both
lanes on the southbound/eastern bore).

On the A2 and A20, again the predominant traffic flow is into central
London whilst you'd be heading the other way. And again I think the
predominant flow on the southeastern side of the M25 is in the
northbound direction.

So this Blackwall Tunnel route might be a viable-ish alternative to
heading out on the M11.

All that said, I'm no expert on driving conditions during the rush
hours - I avoid doing it if at all possible! Others may well have more
relevant experience. And anyway, it'd be a bit barmy to drive this
when you can just get the train.

On Jun 10, 1:16*pm, TimB wrote:
On Jun 10, 10:09 am, David F wrote:





Hi folks,

I have a flight at Gatwick at midday tomorrow, which I am planning to
drive to from Islington, N1. My worry is that the tube strike will
make the roads hell. I think I've got 3 options - drive through the
middle of town, which is the most direct route. Or, go out the A13
then around the M25 ... or, finally, go out on the M4 and around the
M25 the other way.

Given I want to get to the airport for 10am, what time do you think
would be a sensible time to leave at given the anticipated higher than
normal levels of traffic? Which route would you take?

If I miss this flight (as I am prone to do!) the Missus will not be
happy!

Cheers,
D

Are you mad? Take the Thameslink.

No, not mad - just very heavy, awkward bags full of scuba diving
gear :-(

Also, the return leg gets in to Gatwick at 1.30am, so the car will
definitely be handy at that time of the morning.

Thanks for all the advice. I think setting off at 7am, or slightly
before, and go by the A12, M11, M25. It does over double the distance
(start N1 3DS), but it ought to be more dependable.

Thanks chaps - if it were just me going, I'd be on the train with hand
luggage... damn the wife!

Thanks for all the advice. I think setting off at 7am, or slightly
before, and go by the A12, M11, M25. It does over double the distance
(start N1 3DS), but it ought to be more dependable.

Thanks chaps - if it were just me going, I'd be on the train with hand
luggage... damn the wife!

Some belated comments.

Starting from there, the M11 and Dartford crossing seem somewhat
bizarre.

I live near the Blackwall Tunnel Northern Approach and, if I had noticed
your thread sooner, would have suggested you monitor that this morning
with the web cams ( eg
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...d/default.asp). As
others have said, it is nothing like as bad as it used to be in the days
of tidal flow. And you have the option of bailing out to the M25 via
the A11 if you were to find Blackwall closed. As it is, if you arrive
to find an accident on the QE2 bridge your options are rather limited
(unless scuba gear allows you to snorkel the car).

I would also have supported the suggestion of switching to the A20 from
the A2 (in my experience best done by going via Kidbrooke so as to avoid
the South Circular).

Finally, it's some years since I drove to work daily from Hackney to
Westminster but there was then a massive difference in traffic between
6:00 and 7:00. I don't know if the same true is now but in your shoes
(flippers???) I'd leave at 06:00, count it as a bonus if I arrived at
Gatwick by 08:00 and then treat myself to a good breakfast/brunch.
--
R

the M25 via the A11 if you were to find Blackwall closed. As it is,

ahem, that was of course the A13 - you just can't get the electrons
these days
--
R

In message , at
19:18:39 on Wed, 10 Jun 2009, neverwas remarked:
Starting from there, the M11 and Dartford crossing seem somewhat
bizarre.

I suggested it on the principle that the sooner he's on a major dual
carriageway headed out of London the better.
--
Roland Perry

On Jun 10, 10:41*pm, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at
19:18:39 on Wed, 10 Jun 2009, neverwas remarked:

Starting from there, the M11 and Dartford crossing seem somewhat
bizarre.

I suggested it on the principle that the sooner he's on a major dual
carriageway headed out of London the better.

That's a logical enough rationale - however as soon as one is south of
the Blackwall Tunnel one is on a dual carriageway headed out of
London, whether that be the A2 or A20 - and these roads are a world
away from the A24 that trudges due south through south London!

And going south through the Dartford tunnel is arguably heading out of
London - though then again, so is going north! However I wouldn't say
either direction was heading into London - though of course that's
just what some traffic will be doing.

The Blackwall Tunnel is where I'd imagine the greatest potential for
getting held up is - but the predominant flow in the morning is south
to north. Also, ever since the tidal flow system was stopped in 2007
as a result of safety concerns the southbound carriageway has regained
its lost lane - the tidal flow worked by making the southbound
(eastern) bore two way, so northbound traffic got three lanes and
southbound traffic only got one. There was no equivalent system in the
evening peak. This obviously means less capacity for northbound
traffic compared to before, but it eased things for southbound
traffic.

Incidentally Boris made an election pledge to reverse this decision
and re-instate the tidal flow, but not much has been heard about it in
more recent times, I think essentially because the Met Police aren't
having it. The real world is of course a little more complicated than
the world according to Boris's blusterings. Anyway Tom Barry
summarised the situation a year ago like this:
http://www.boriswatch.co.uk/2008/06/...olitan-police/

It's interesting to note that 'motorists friend' Boris cancelled the
Thames Gateway bridge (or at least shelved it - such plans are never
cancelled forever!), whilst car hater Ken was a big proponent of it -
said bridge would have provided an element of relief for the Blackwall
Tunnel. To be fair, the Thames Gateway bridge story is rather more
complicated than that and so can't really be summarised nice and
neatly in a sentence or two - in fact it's on my list of utl threads
to initiate when I get a mo!

On Jun 10, 8:18*pm, "neverwas" wrote:

Thanks for all the advice. I think setting off at 7am, or slightly
before, and go by the A12, M11, M25. It does over double the distance
(start N1 3DS), but it ought to be more dependable.

Thanks chaps - if it were just me going, I'd be on the train with hand
luggage... damn the wife!

Some belated comments.

Yes, rather too late now! Nevermind, should there be a next time, or
another similar query.


Starting from there, the M11 and Dartford crossing seem somewhat
bizarre.

Agreed - though to be fair Roland's basic rationale seems sound (he
explains it in his own reply to your post).


I live near the Blackwall Tunnel Northern Approach and, if I had noticed
your thread sooner, *would have suggested you monitor that this morning
with the web cams ( eg
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravel...d/default.asp). As
others have said, it is nothing like as bad as it used to be in the days
of tidal flow. *And you have the option of bailing out to the M25 via
the [A13] if you were to find Blackwall closed. *As it is, if you arrive
to find an accident on the QE2 bridge your options are rather limited
(unless scuba gear allows you to snorkel the car).

The ability to bail out onto the A13 is a crucial advantage - the A13
these days is entirely grade separated dual-carriageway to somewhere
past Basildon.

(By the by, if there *is* an accident on the QE2 bridge at the
Dartford crossing, then how quickly do they turn one of the tunnels
from a northbound into a southbound tunnel I wonder?)


I would also have supported the suggestion of switching to the A20 from
the A2 (in my experience best done by going via Kidbrooke so as to avoid
the South Circular).

Thanks for the advice, yes that sounds very wise to avoid getting
caught up in the South Circular traffic too much. I think that signs
at the Kidbrooke interchange only direct local-ish traffic via this
Kidbrooke route, not entirely sure about that though but I suspect one
needs to properly acquaint oneself with a map beforehand in order to
pull off this little 'short-cut' correctly. Nonetheless it's no great
disaster if one were to miss this and one can just carry on and come
via the South Circular and the Yorkshire Grey roundabout instead.


Finally, it's some years since I drove to work daily from Hackney to
Westminster but there was then a massive difference in traffic between
6:00 and 7:00. *I don't know if the same true is now but in your shoes
(flippers???) I'd leave at 06:00, count it as a bonus if I arrived at
Gatwick by 08:00 and then treat myself to a good breakfast/brunch.