In article , says...
In message , Walter Briscoe
writes
There are 2 fares guides for zones 1-6 and zones 7-9. You can view them
via http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

Before reading this in full, I had no idea that the system was so
ridiculously complicated - it must completely baffle the visitor from
overseas. And even such a long document appears to give up at some
points - e.g. saying there are special fares on some overground
journeys, "ask at your local station for details".

It was also out-of-date even when first issued. It claims you can use
Oyster on National Rail services between West Hampstead and Moorgate -
would be interesting for TfL to suggest what route to take.




No it wasn't, when it was issued the Moorgate branch of Thameslink was
still in operation, it didn't close until 22 March.

On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:48:50 +0100
Clive Page wrote:
In message , Walter Briscoe
writes
There are 2 fares guides for zones 1-6 and zones 7-9. You can view them
via http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

Before reading this in full, I had no idea that the system was so
ridiculously complicated - it must completely baffle the visitor from

If it wasn't so complicated there'd be less scope to fleece people. You
can't overcharge if theres a flat fare or simple zoning.

Oh , as an aside , if you now enter a station using PAYG, remember you've
forgotten something and leave again it'll now cost you 4 quid for the
priviledge. It used to be about a quid but obviously that didn't rake in
enough cash from people who forgot umbrellas etc.

B2003

On Sep 21, 9:48*am, Clive Page wrote:
In message , Walter Briscoe
writes

There are 2 fares guides for zones 1-6 and zones 7-9. You can view them
via http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

Before reading this in full, I had no idea that the system was so
ridiculously complicated - it must completely baffle the visitor from
overseas. *And even such a long document appears to give up at some
points - e.g. saying there are special fares on some overground
journeys, "ask at your local station for details".

It was also out-of-date even when first issued. *It claims you can use
Oyster on National Rail services between West Hampstead and Moorgate -
would be interesting for TfL to suggest what route to take.

West Hampstead -LO- Highbury & Islington -FCC- Moorgate?

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:53:20 -0700 (PDT), PhilD wrote:

"They" really should do something about those wheelchair symbols.
Which ones are interchanges, and which ones aren't? Perhaps just put
a little wheelchair pictogram overlaid on the station symbol, without
the dirty great big circles?

Or just remove them altogether and leave them to the separate
Accessibility Map. IMO they should have been the first thing to go in
the simplification, as they're both more visually intrusive and less
widely useful than things that did go like the fare zones and grid and
index.

On 16 Sep, 21:22, "Paul Scott" wrote:
Theo Markettos wrote:
Nicks wrote:
Picked up one at an underground station today - new tube map posters
are also up - quite a lot of design changes made! River Thames has
disappeared and zones are no longer shown.

I'm rather puzzled because this article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...p-redrawn-Lond...

seems to show an 'OLD' map displaying the full extent of the ELLX, but
the 'NEW' map shows the old ELL including river crossing (despite the
river not being shown). *Did the Daily Mail get it wrong?

Certainly don't think that OLD map has been out in the wild, the full ELL is
a bit of a giveaway in that respect.

The new map does match some pictures I've seen on various sites, except I've
also seen it without the grid lines. The BBC's version is a bit clearer in
fact: *http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/h...9_Tube_Map.pdf

The ELL is shown in the Overground colour, with dashed lines denoting under
construction; but if the point of the map is to show where you can travel as
of today, why is it there at all?

I think it has been pointed out somewhere that the pocket map and latest
wall map are slightly different as well...

Paul

Having now seen one of the large wall maps in the wild, I think that
they way they've included the ELL is the wrongest thing of all.

If they are showing what's currently there, it shouldn't be on the map
at all. If they are showing what's under construction, they should
show the whole thing.

To show a line as it previously was* but never will be again is surely
the most useless possible clutter that they could include.

Is/was there still some vestige of a requirement for the ELL to exist
as part of LU (which also explained the pointless bus services) that
is behind this?


*Apart from changing the name of Shoreditch.

MIG wrote:

*Apart from changing the name of Shoreditch.

I was going to say Shoreditch must be the only railway station in the world
to change name after closing... but then I remembered North End/Bull And
Bush.

Basil Jet wrote:

*Apart from changing the name of Shoreditch.

I was going to say Shoreditch must be the only railway station in the
world to change name after closing... but then I remembered North End/Bull
And Bush.

Isn't Shoreditch technically not closed but rather going to be resited as
Shoreditch High Street? Or did TfL go through the legal closure procedure?

"MIG" wrote in message


Having now seen one of the large wall maps in the wild, I think that
they way they've included the ELL is the wrongest thing of all.

If they are showing what's currently there, it shouldn't be on the map
at all. If they are showing what's under construction, they should
show the whole thing.

To show a line as it previously was* but never will be again is surely
the most useless possible clutter that they could include.

Is/was there still some vestige of a requirement for the ELL to exist
as part of LU (which also explained the pointless bus services) that
is behind this?

Yes, I was astonished to see the ghost of the old ELL on the new map. As
you say, it's probably something to do with some silly legal
requirement, but I couldn't understand why they didn't show the new line
under construction, just as they've done with other extensions in the
year or so before they opened.

On Sep 20, 9:47*am, Walter Briscoe
wrote:
In message
s.com of Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:38:34 in uk.transport.london,
" writes

On Sep 14, 5:34*pm, "Nicks" wrote:
Picked up one at an underground station today - new tube map posters are
also up - quite a lot of design changes made! River Thames has disappeared
and zones are no longer shown.

Nicks

Actually NYC eliminated the zone map in the 70's

Irrelevantly interesting
I worked in NYC in 1983.
All journeys were flat rate and cost a token which AFAIR cost $0.90.

London Underground has distance-related charging by zones.
The cost of most journeys is a complicated function of class of customer
(Adult; child 0-10; child 11-15; etc.), oyster or paper ticket, peak or
off peak and zones traversed.

Losing zones from the maps seems gross to me.

There are 2 fares guides for zones 1-6 and zones 7-9. You can view them
via http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/2930.aspx

Just to make things interesting, paper guides at stations are slightly
obsolete. They say Oyster Pay as You Go Journeys must be completed in
2.5 hours; reality and web documents say 70 minutes to 4 hours.
--
Walter Briscoe


Between 1956 and circa 1973 there was an extra fare charged on the A
Rockaway line south of howard beach

In message , Paul Scott
writes

But when issued in Jan 2009 you could still travel West Hampstead to
Moorgate on FCC(Thameslink)? Closure didn't happen until 22nd March...

You are right - it was indeed issued before the closure. It's
out-of-date now, of course.


--
Clive Page