"Paul Terry" wrote in message
...
In message , Graham Harrison
writes

I read that to imply that I can only buy a single ticket on PAYG. If I
make a return journey between the same pair of stations I will be charged
another single rather than a return (e.g. right now - 1453 on 24 Nov)
single Chiswick/Clapham Junction is £2.10 return 3.10

If you were currently allowed to use PAYG for that journey, the cost would
be £1.10 each way. In 2010, when you will be allowed to use PAYG, the cost
will be £1.30 each way, or £2.60 return.

So, if you currently pay £3.10 for an off-peak day return ticket, you will
be 50p a day better off using PAYG.

so with PAYG I'll pay £1.00 more than if I buy a "real" ticket.

I don't understand how you've come to that conclusion. A single journey on
PAYG across two zones (excluding zone 1) will be £1.30 next year. And it's
the same even if you travel at peak times, unlike your current ticket.

--
Paul Terry

Ah... I hadn't appreciated there was a change in the fares as well.

Paul Terry wrote:

It's not "unavailable" unless you can't cross the road to the Oyster shop,

I've not seen that one well advertised as an Oyster stop - though admittedly
I tend to turn right straight out of the station - but also what happens out
of hours when the shop is closed?

and I've not seen any evidence in the 2010 fares tables of zone extension
tickets being "whacked up".

Well raising paper ticket prices to drive people onto Oyster has been the
standard strategy for years now so why shouldn't we expect it to be extended
here?

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:08:24 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Unless I've entirely misunderstood, you don't need an OEP if you are
intending to travel using a PAYG Oyster.

It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and you
want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.

Yes but if you have the season/travelcard already on it's difficult to use
PAYG. For instance if I have a Zones 1-3 travelcard and want to go Forest
Gate (Z3) to Ilford (Z4) I *can't* just use PAYG - I will *have* to get an
OEP which won't be available at my local starting station.

Why won't you be able to get one at Forest Gate? Won't there be Oyster
ticket machines at all PAYG stations?

asdf wrote:

Unless I've entirely misunderstood, you don't need an OEP if you are
intending to travel using a PAYG Oyster.

It is only needed if you have a season/travelcard on your Oyster and you
want to use PAYG in order to pay for an out-of-zone journey.

Yes but if you have the season/travelcard already on it's difficult to use
PAYG. For instance if I have a Zones 1-3 travelcard and want to go Forest
Gate (Z3) to Ilford (Z4) I *can't* just use PAYG - I will *have* to get an
OEP which won't be available at my local starting station.

Why won't you be able to get one at Forest Gate? Won't there be Oyster
ticket machines at all PAYG stations?

The implication is that OEPs will not be available at National Rail stations
that are currently *not* PAYG stations.

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:48:39 -0800 (PST), Paul Corfield
wrote:

It would appear that some official information is already available on
OEP and other NR PAYG matters.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/5823.aspx

How very, very odd. When I went to that page earlier today it had a
load of detail about the post 2 Jan 2010 situation on it. It included
paragraphs on OEP. Now when I look it is not there. I wonder if it
worked because I linked through at work during my lunch break??

Sorry for the confusion.

I know what you mean, Paul. I read what you quoted earlier there yesterday
and now it's gone.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 24 Nov, 20:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
How very, very odd. *When I went to that page earlier today it had a
load of detail about the post 2 Jan 2010 situation on it. It included
paragraphs on OEP. *Now when I look it is not there. *I wonder if it
worked because I linked through at work during my lunch break??

No, I saw it too.

The text about OEPs here is almost identical to what was on TfL's site
this morning:

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...iCmsPageId=509

U

In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I doubt that many NR stations will end up selling the full range of
Oyster services. We're £40m down in terms of this upgrade and there is
little expansion of Oyster capable retailing as a result. It's only at
joint stations plus whatever LOROL has taken over from former TOCs. Why
do you imagine there has been such a massive expansion and re-equipment
of the Oyster Ticket Stop network?

I wonder why the money spent on this expansion was not used to provide
Oyster retail facilities at NR stations. Surely that would have been
more useful to passengers, given the likely shift from paper tickets to
Oyster on NR throughout London?

Where I live, there are already eight Oyster Ticket Stops within a few
hundred yards of the station - it's just the station itself that lacks
the facility, even though it has a staffed booking office open for 16
hours a day! OTOH, the next station down the line is unstaffed and has
no Oyster Ticket Stop whatsoever nearby.

I dare say there wasn't much enthusiasm from the TOCs, of course, but I
wonder what booking clerks are going to do in the future, given the
almost certain decline in sales of paper tickets. It will probably be
used as an excuse to close more ticket offices, I guess.

--
Paul Terry

Mr Thant wrote:
On 24 Nov, 20:17, Paul Corfield wrote:
How very, very odd. When I went to that page earlier today it had a
load of detail about the post 2 Jan 2010 situation on it. It included
paragraphs on OEP. Now when I look it is not there. I wonder if it
worked because I linked through at work during my lunch break??

No, I saw it too.

The text about OEPs here is almost identical to what was on TfL's site
this morning:

http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...iCmsPageId=509

There has been a presumption (judged across a number of threads, blogs etc)
that OEPs will not be available at NR stations, but in that linked article
it includes:

"Oyster Extension Permits can be set at any Tube or London Overground
station ticket office or touchscreen ticket machine; Oyster Ticket Stops;
selected National Rail ticket offices or _self-service ticket machines
displaying the Oyster card reader logo._"

In the TfL/ATOC media briefing 'FAQs' (linked elsewhere) it reads
"Passengers will be also be able to add pay as you go credit at most
National Rail stations."

So maybe as we speak, they are tweaking the NR TVM software to provide both
PAYG top ups and OEPs from 2nd Jan? IIRC the LO TVMs were retrofitteed with
Oyster facilities in pretty short order when they went over to TfL...

Maybe everyone should wait and see before assuming the worst...

Paul S

Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Paul Corfield
writes

I doubt that many NR stations will end up selling the full range of
Oyster services. We're £40m down in terms of this upgrade and there
is little expansion of Oyster capable retailing as a result. It's
only at joint stations plus whatever LOROL has taken over from
former TOCs. Why do you imagine there has been such a massive
expansion and re-equipment of the Oyster Ticket Stop network?

I wonder why the money spent on this expansion was not used to provide
Oyster retail facilities at NR stations. Surely that would have been
more useful to passengers, given the likely shift from paper tickets
to Oyster on NR throughout London?

The media briefing 'FAQs' suggests that Oyster PAYG top ups at least will be
available at 'most NR stations', presumably via modifications to the TVMs.

There are already some TOC stations where Oyster Travelcards are retailed,
maybe these will be increased as well?

Paul S

Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:
asdf wrote:

Why won't you be able to get one at Forest Gate? Won't there be
Oyster ticket machines at all PAYG stations?

The implication is that OEPs will not be available at National Rail
stations that are currently *not* PAYG stations.

That is only an assumption. The FCC info on OEPs (discussed elsewhere in
this thread) suggests the opposite.

Paul S