On 10/04/2010 01:46, Mizter T wrote:

On Apr 10, 12:51 am,
wrote:

On 09/04/2010 11:39, Paul Scott wrote:

wrote:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/4502772159/

Does anyone know why this gateline was finally removed?

As an interchange gateline, it was presumably thought unnecessary following
PAYG extension (although it may just be coincidence). It was pretty much
unique, as there are plenty of other stations where you can get into the
underground directly from other NR services, and the same requirement was
not applied to Central, DLR and LO at Stratford.

Did they install a trip validator?

What precisely do you mean by "trip validator"?

Route validator, I meant

On 10 Apr, 00:25, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 9, 10:18*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:





Paul Corfield wrote:
Having had to try to find a validator at Stratford to record an entry
on my (priv) PAYG card while trying to use the NXEA service to T Hale
I ended up walking for nearly 8 minutes to try to find one. *There
are non on the Lea Valley platforms or on the corridors leading to
them. This strikes me as an omission. When I found one on the central
line platforms I ended just getting on the central line instead! *I
imagine most people who have given up 7 minutes before I did. *The
NXEA staff had no idea what I was talking about when I asked where
the nearest validator was.

You've reminded me that I was reading a thread in a rail forum a couple of
days ago where someone was adamant that all the platform interchange
validators had been switched off atLondonBridgeas soon as PAYG went live
on NR.

The main thrust of that discussion was someone asking how he should
correctly use PAYG to commence a journey, having travelled as far as 'London
Terminals' with a paper ticket from somewhere like Portsmouth.

If they really have decided to switch off platform (or paid side)
'interchange validators' as a matter of policy, such passengers from outside
the zones wishing to change to PAYG seem to have little option but to exit
using their paper ticket and re-enter using PAYG. Is this really the current
situation - and is it reasonable?

I will endeavour to swing by the through platforms atLondonBridge
soon and take a look.


I looked at the ones at the end of platform 5/6 yesterday and they
were off.

Mizter T wrote:


By the by, FWIW I successfully used a pink interchange validator to
start a journey at Highbury & Islington (post footie, so the H&I gates
were in the open position to handle the crowds, and it was when the
NLL was still running and hence the NLL platforms accessible). I think
I then went and got on the Vic line - anyhow, there was no unresolved
journey or anything like that. So, going by this the pink validators
at West Brompton can be used to start a PAYG journey at least. Whether
they can end a journey I can't say - I suspect they can, but I haven't
tested that yet. Of course, just to be clear the official TfL guidance
is that pink validators should *not* be used to start or end a journey
- so don't anyone get in trouble by following me!

Going back to the original yellow 'interchange validators' having thought it
through again. With extension to the NR routes they do actually become a
major PAYG loophole don't they. Your previous suggestions about a 'soft
exit' cover the situation. Transfer from LU onto SWT at Wimbledon with a
touch on an interchange validator and the system will treat that as your
exit - if you then don't touch out on exit at an ungated station further
down the line you've saved a few zones. So perhaps most of them will be
removed...

Paul S

On Apr 13, 12:58*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

By the by, FWIW I successfully used a pink interchange validator to
start a journey at Highbury & Islington [...snip]

Going back to the original yellow 'interchange validators' having thought it
through again. *With extension to the NR routes they do actually become a
major PAYG loophole don't they. Your previous suggestions about a 'soft
exit' cover the situation. Transfer from LU onto SWT at Wimbledon with a
touch on an interchange validator and the system will treat that as your
exit - if you then don't touch out on exit at an ungated station further
down the line *you've saved a few zones. *So perhaps most of them will be
removed...

Yeah, you see where I'm coming from on that point.

On Apr 13, 11:49*am, MIG wrote:

On 10 Apr, 00:25, Mizter T wrote:

On Apr 9, 10:18*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Paul Corfield wrote:
Having had to try to find a validator at Stratford to record an entry
on my (priv) PAYG card while trying to use the NXEA service to T Hale
I ended up walking for nearly 8 minutes to try to find one. *There
are non on the Lea Valley platforms or on the corridors leading to
them. This strikes me as an omission. When I found one on the central
line platforms I ended just getting on the central line instead! *I
imagine most people who have given up 7 minutes before I did. *The
NXEA staff had no idea what I was talking about when I asked where
the nearest validator was.

You've reminded me that I was reading a thread in a rail forum a couple of
days ago where someone was adamant that all the platform interchange
validators had been switched off at London Bridge as soon as PAYG went
live on NR.

The main thrust of that discussion was someone asking how he should
correctly use PAYG to commence a journey, having travelled as far as 'London
Terminals' with a paper ticket from somewhere like Portsmouth.

If they really have decided to switch off platform (or paid side)
'interchange validators' as a matter of policy, such passengers from outside
the zones wishing to change to PAYG seem to have little option but to exit
using their paper ticket and re-enter using PAYG. Is this really the current
situation - and is it reasonable?

I will endeavour to swing by the through platforms at London Bridge
soon and take a look.

I looked at the ones at the end of platform 5/6 yesterday and they
were off.

Ok. Well, see Paul Scott's separate comment on this issue.

On 13 Apr, 13:06, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 13, 12:58*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

By the by, FWIW I successfully used a pink interchange validator to
start a journey at Highbury & Islington [...snip]

Going back to the original yellow 'interchange validators' having thought it
through again. *With extension to the NR routes they do actually become a
major PAYG loophole don't they. Your previous suggestions about a 'soft
exit' cover the situation. Transfer from LU onto SWT at Wimbledon with a
touch on an interchange validator and the system will treat that as your
exit - if you then don't touch out on exit at an ungated station further
down the line *you've saved a few zones. *So perhaps most of them will be
removed...

Yeah, you see where I'm coming from on that point.

But is it really any different from any other situation of travelling
without a valid ticket? If you were determined to use that kind of
"loophole"*, you could still touch at the wide gate.

*It's not really a loophole, because it's simply travelling without a
ticket and, if you are gripped, you pays the price.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 05:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
MIG wrote:
*It's not really a loophole, because it's simply travelling without a
ticket and, if you are gripped, you pays the price.

But its not travelling without a ticket. As long as you have a PAYG that
has sufficient funds to pay the not touching in penalty fare at wherever
you're going to then its valid.

B2003

MIG wrote:
On 13 Apr, 13:06, Mizter T wrote:
On Apr 13, 12:58 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

By the by, FWIW I successfully used a pink interchange validator to
start a journey at Highbury & Islington [...snip]

Going back to the original yellow 'interchange validators' having
thought it through again. With extension to the NR routes they do
actually become a major PAYG loophole don't they. Your previous
suggestions about a 'soft exit' cover the situation. Transfer from
LU onto SWT at Wimbledon with a touch on an interchange validator
and the system will treat that as your exit - if you then don't
touch out on exit at an ungated station further down the line
you've saved a few zones. So perhaps most of them will be removed...

Yeah, you see where I'm coming from on that point.

But is it really any different from any other situation of travelling
without a valid ticket? If you were determined to use that kind of
"loophole"*, you could still touch at the wide gate.

But a touch at a wide gate would be a proper touch out, not one of Mizter
T's 'soft exits'. If gripped further down the line the 'soft exit' shows up
but your account is still 'pending' a final touch out. IIRC from previous
discussions it will time out eventually?

*It's not really a loophole, because it's simply travelling without a
ticket and, if you are gripped, you pays the price.

No, I think unless they've changed something you are still 'touched in'.
Others might be able to explain better.

Paul S

On Apr 13, 1:39*pm, wrote:

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 05:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
MIG wrote:

*It's not really a loophole, because it's simply travelling without a
ticket and, if you are gripped, you pays the price.

But its not travelling without a ticket. As long as you have a PAYG that
has sufficient funds to pay the not touching in penalty fare at wherever
you're going to then its valid.

Quite.

On Apr 13, 1:25*pm, MIG wrote:

On 13 Apr, 13:06, Mizter T wrote:

On Apr 13, 12:58*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Mizter T wrote:

By the by, FWIW I successfully used a pink interchange validator to
start a journey at Highbury & Islington [...snip]

Going back to the original yellow 'interchange validators' having thought it
through again. *With extension to the NR routes they do actually become a
major PAYG loophole don't they. Your previous suggestions about a 'soft
exit' cover the situation. Transfer from LU onto SWT at Wimbledon with a
touch on an interchange validator and the system will treat that as your
exit - if you then don't touch out on exit at an ungated station further
down the line *you've saved a few zones. *So perhaps most of them will be
removed...

Yeah, you see where I'm coming from on that point.

But is it really any different from any other situation of travelling
without a valid ticket? *If you were determined to use that kind of
"loophole"*, you could still touch at the wide gate.

What do you mean by that - a manual side gate with an reader next to
it? In which case I suspect that might not work - I suspect the
journey may be closed, albeit with the option of it being re-opened by
passing back through a gate (either LU or NR), or possibly even
touching on a reader next to a manual side gate again, but in any case
the journey would then need final closure at the far end.


*It's not really a loophole, because it's simply travelling without a
ticket and, if you are gripped, you pays the price.

No - as Boltar correctly says, it's a legitimately valid ticket as the
journey remains open.