On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:04:30 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

Interesting - if so, there might be something of a left-hand (FGW)
right-hand (LU) situation here - but it would be interesting to hear
more from regular users of these gates, or indeed see the usage stats
before and after, so as to be surer as to what degree the new Circle/
teacup line arrangement may have affected matters.

It has put a lot of extra passengers onto the bridge, who (like me)
might not have been there before. That said, it is a more convenient
service, with about 12tph to Euston instead of 6, and better spaced.

I suppose that one could put forward the case that it's used by
regular users, such as commuters, who are likely to have a season
ticket or Oyster card - and the gates could be configured to provide
'free passage' through the CTA (though such an arrangement is open to
abuse, with bods touching-out on the gate but not walking through it,
and instead staying within the CTA so as to board a train to
wherever).

That option is already available at any London terminal to anyone
holding a Travelcard with Zone 1 on it. Sometimes it is necessary to
exit through a manual gate, but it is a valid ticket to be on the
station. I've used it to use the bogs at City Thameslink before

It is a complication, though, as you say.

Must admit that I was a bit surprised when the Teacup/ Lasso
(whatever!) went ahead without there being any changes at Paddington
H&C platforms - I recall alighting there some time before the changes,
not during the rush-hour either (poss. shoulder-peak), and standing
right at the back of a queue of people waiting to climb the stairs (I
was in no rush) - the number of people hauling luggage up the stairs
(and not holding up for a moment for the non-luggaged folk to go
first) was a significant contributory factor, but even without the
luggage the number of people would have prevented a quick escape. I
spoke to the platform assistant on duty and he said it was always like
that!

They've started blocking people from going down when the platform is
dangerously full, and this seems to work, though they can only do it
for so long because it can create a crowd problem on the bridge if it
reaches back to the barriers. (Indeed, on the way in, the barriers
perhaps moderate this a bit, so there's one thing in favour of them).
This seems to work, though it's annoying if you have to let a train
go. They did it for the first time I've seen this morning - but the
infrastructure is still not up to it - a second set of stairs on the
other side is still needed.

One last thing - I dunno how it would compare to using the Circle/H&C
line (slower I'm sure), but one alternate option for a Paddington to
Euston journey might be the 18 (bendy) bus that traverses Harrow Road
- you'd need to use the aforementioned northern exit from Paddington,
and use the pedestrian subway under the road. The 18 is a busy route,
though it might be ok in the contra-peak direction. Just and idea -
though it might well be more useful in a snafu situation as opposed to
during the normal course of events (when others might be heading to
the front of Paddington for the 205 bus).

I did wonder which way the 18 went. Might give it a go tomorrow.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:45:08 +0100, Duncan wrote:

I can't see why the Circle line changes should have made any difference
to people exiting at Paddington. Sure the overall numbers arriving per
hour will have increased, but has the number of passengers exiting per
train really changed?

It is now the case that two trains worth of people can build up on the
platform (the second arriving while the first is still clearing). It
is at its worst when this happens.

At 12tph-ish, if it takes 10 minutes to clear the platform (this has
happened) you might even get a third train if you are unlucky.

Most people joining at stations like King's Cross heading to Paddington
got on the first service regardless of whether it was a Hammersmith &
City or Circle service.

Possibly. But I think going away from Padd that people would as a
whole "default" to the Circle Line, just because that's the known
quantity. Commuters, of course, will have their own way of doing
things, but there would at least be some split.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

In uk.railway Neil Williams wrote:
I'm not totally sure it is dangerous - it is just disruptive, just as
the situation on the LUL platforms themselves is - it can take 10
minutes to get off the platforms there in the worst case.

LUL clearly didn't think this through properly before making changes
to the Circle Line. (Changes which I generally support, but
infrastructure work to open out the platform and an extra set of
stairs were required *first*).

There's a disused bridge linking platforms 15/16 and platforms 13/14. How
feasible would this be to bring into use (until the Crossrail works happen),
to at least relieve some of the flow from the west end of 15/16? Does this
date from when the Circle and GWR were linked, as an extra entrance to the
Circle?

Theo

In article ,
(Duncan) wrote:

I can't see why the Circle line changes should have made any
difference to people exiting at Paddington. Sure the overall
numbers arriving per hour will have increased, but has the number
of passengers exiting per train really changed?

Most people joining at stations like King's Cross heading to
Paddington got on the first service regardless of whether it was a
Hammersmith & City or Circle service. Therefore I would have
expected the pinch point on the stairs following the arrival of a
service to be the same now as before the changes.

There is no Circle service from King's Cross to Paddington any more! You
have to change at Edgware Road. If you are lucky it's cross-platform.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:57:05 -0500,
wrote:

There is no Circle service from King's Cross to Paddington any more!

Yes there is - it's just the *other* Paddington.

(OK, pedantic point. But "Circle Line" is still shown as a
destination on the trains that originated from the Circle!)

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

On 8 July, 23:24, Neil Williams
wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

The exit is to the north east, from the top of platforms 8 and 9,
where the bridge takes a bend between spans 3 and 4, the exit goes
straight on(ish). It comes out by the canal and ultimately leads to
Bishop's Bridge Road. It is one of the reasons that there has to be a
barrier on the bridge, if barriers are used, as the pathway is
currently rather narrow.

Ah, I looked and saw it today. *Must have disregarded it last time as
it looks like a bit of a building site entrance!

There is something circular about this. Because of overcrowding,
there has to be an extra exit, but because of the extra exit, there
has to be a barrier that creates overcrowding.

(Or was there always an exit that way? I can only remember going
through the main station, but maybe I never needed to go the other
way.)

On 9 July, 07:24, MIG wrote:
On 8 July, 23:24, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

The exit is to the north east, from the top of platforms 8 and 9,
where the bridge takes a bend between spans 3 and 4, the exit goes
straight on(ish). It comes out by the canal and ultimately leads to
Bishop's Bridge Road. It is one of the reasons that there has to be a
barrier on the bridge, if barriers are used, as the pathway is
currently rather narrow.

Ah, I looked and saw it today. *Must have disregarded it last time as
it looks like a bit of a building site entrance!

There is something circular about this. *Because of overcrowding,
there has to be an extra exit, but because of the extra exit, there
has to be a barrier that creates overcrowding.

(Or was there always an exit that way? *I can only remember going
through the main station, but maybe I never needed to go the other
way.)

Perhaps someone could take a photo of the overcrowding on the H&C
platforms at Paddington, or would they get arrested under the
"Terrorism Act"?

On Jul 9, 7:24*am, MIG wrote:

On 8 July, 23:24, Neil Williams
wrote:

On Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:31:45 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

The exit is to the north east, from the top of platforms 8 and 9,
where the bridge takes a bend between spans 3 and 4, the exit goes
straight on(ish). It comes out by the canal and ultimately leads to
Bishop's Bridge Road. It is one of the reasons that there has to be a
barrier on the bridge, if barriers are used, as the pathway is
currently rather narrow.

Ah, I looked and saw it today. *Must have disregarded it last time as
it looks like a bit of a building site entrance!

There is something circular about this. *Because of overcrowding,
there has to be an extra exit, but because of the extra exit, there
has to be a barrier that creates overcrowding.

(Or was there always an exit that way? *I can only remember going
through the main station, but maybe I never needed to go the other
way.)

The exit (the northern one for Harrow Rd) has been around since long
before the new gates were installed last year (or whenever it was) -
so afraid your argument falls at the first hurdle!

I can't quite recall exactly what the arrangement was in days or yore,
but I think this northern exit used to form part of the cab road that
ran through Paddington - I think there was direct access off the old
Bishop's Bridge into the cab road, which then used the ramp down to
the wide island between platforms 8 & 9 before continuing across what
is now the concourse and onto the ramp that leads up to Praed Street.

I'm not sure if there was any pedestrian access next to the cab road
in those days, as the cast iron bridge it uses (which now forms part
of that northern exit) is quite narrow - nor am I sure whether or not
there was any other pedestrian exit up this way.

There did used to be a direct entrance onto the H&C line platforms
from Bishop's Bridge too - I'm not sure when this fell out of use, it
may have even been before the H&C line tracks and BR tracks on the
approach to Paddington were disentangled in the 60's. The current
emergency exit bridge between the H&C island platform and platforms
13/14 is I believe a remnant of this.

I dunno whether there were ever any thoughts about connecting the new
Bishop's Bridge to a re-opened exit for the H&C line in the same
location, but if there were then they were obviously never progressed.

On Fri, 9 Jul 2010 01:56:21 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

I can't quite recall exactly what the arrangement was in days or yore,
but I think this northern exit used to form part of the cab road that
ran through Paddington - I think there was direct access off the old
Bishop's Bridge into the cab road, which then used the ramp down to
the wide island between platforms 8 & 9 before continuing across what
is now the concourse and onto the ramp that leads up to Praed Street.


That is also my recollection.

On 8 July, 13:58, Neil Williams wrote:
I'm saying the whole overbridge should be within a common barriered
area containing both LUL and the mainline. *

Not possible - that bridge is a pedestrian right of way from the canal
path to Eastbourne Terrace, and can't be completely gated - which is
why the gates on the bridge to the platforms are as they are.