Am 09.01.2012 22:23, schrieb :
Westberlin citizens (this was in the late 1960ies).



But they would use West German passports to travel further afield, would
they not?

they could have three different travel documents:
a) the "makeshift ID card" issued by West Berlin authorities;
b) the FRG passport issued by a representive office of the Bonn minstry
of interior in Westberlin;
c) a FRG passport issued by some municipality in West Germany.

(the passport does not carry the address, but the place of residence,
plus the issuing authority)

Depending on the travel destination and journey, one would select the
travel document to be shown.

I didn't think that crossing policies into East Berlin for West Berlin
residents would have been so difficult by the late 1960s.

I think it was X-mas 1970 or so, when West Berlin citizens could get
a "Passierschein" for visiting Est Berlin for the first time after the
building of the Berlin Wall. But only for Christmas, I believe.

My goodness, so much time has passed since then...

That moment in July 1990, when I drove thru the the former
Helmstedt/Marienborn Autobahn border checkpoint without having to stop
and show my passport -- a deeply moving moment of joy.


Cheers,
L.W.

Am 09.01.2012 18:44, schrieb Graham Nye:
I see you've given up any pretence of providing examples to demonstrate
your claim that:

Under capitalist rule, you will find that most state owned
enterprises are actually operated with the objective to make profit.

Well, Seafrance comes to my mind, which has been declared bankrupt
and to be dissolved today. And of course, Deutsche Bahn AG.

I already mentioned some others, on which you (or who else) expanded
(e.g. Northern Rock bank).


Cheers,
L.W.

Am 09.01.2012 18:46, schrieb Paul Rigg:
Yes he means Checkpoint Charlie. The DDR referred to their border
crossing as Ubergangstelle Friedrichstrasse Zimmerstrasse and it was
only available to the military, diplomats and none Germans. Germans
had to use Heerstrasse, north of the Reichstag, though there were
latterly other points for West Berlin residents

Actually there were some more. When going by car, I mostly used the
check point at Heinrich-Heine-Straße (Kreuzberg).


Cheers,
L.W.

On 09/01/2012 21:31, wrote:

Under what circumstances would they have allowed Polish citizens to
obtain West German passports and when was that?

Perhaps "Germans" (however officially defined) who found themselves
living in Poland in 1945, when Poland was moved westwards and took over
land which had been unambiguously Germany pre-war? Presumably not every
German in that position either fled or died in the immediate post-war
period.

Germany has (had?) some kind of "right of return" rules, allowing people
of German background from places outside Germany to go to Germany itself
- there were German communities in odd corners of the Russian empire,
for example, though obviously things went badly wrong from them in 1941.

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64474 says
"In order to immigrate to Germany, members of the diaspora now must
qualify in two ways. Their passports – which in Kyrgyzstan, in a
holdover from Soviet practice, indicate ethnicity – must have always
listed them as Germans. And they must demonstrate basic language ability
and cultural familiarity in a test given biannually at the German
Embassy. Since 2005, children and spouses of immigrants have also had to
pass a language exam. These days, few take the test."

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

"Lüko Willms" schreef

: Am 09.01.2012 22:29, schrieb :
: What were the stipulations when West Germans or individuals from Western
: countries crossed into East Berlin?

: The simple way was the day pass. ... One had to change 25 DM into
DDR-Mark; good for
: buying books.

.... and lunch. I spent most of my 25 DDR-Mark on a copy of this book:
Berliner Vedutenmalerei
http://bernhard.antiquariatsportal.d...unstmappe.html .

I still have it - as well as the East German coins I was left with at the
end of the day.

During that day trip, I was twice approached in the street in East Berlin by
"agents provocateurs" asking me to exchange DDR-Mark for DM. I was wise
enough to refuse ...

Colin Youngs
Brussels

Am 10.01.2012 00:01, schrieb Colin Youngs:
During that day trip, I was twice approached in the street in East Berlin by
"agents provocateurs" asking me to exchange DDR-Mark for DM.

What made you sure that it was an "agent provocateur"?


L.W.

Am 09.01.2012 23:59, schrieb Wolfgang Schwanke:
I wonder where I can find any information specifically about the East
Berlin U-Bhan, such as its history, operations and development.

The line which is now U5 was extended eastward. First to Tierpark
(zoo), later to Hönow, a new living quarter at the Eastern outskirts.
That extension used for some parts a former railway alignment, which
resulted in having a common S-Bahn/U-Bahn station at Wuhletal (I think
with common platforms per direction with one track for S-Bahn and the
other for U-Bahn).

There is no such thing as the East Berlin U-Bahn. The U-Bahn, just as
the S-Bahn and tram systems, existed long before the city was divided,
on both would-be sides of teh wall. East Berlin inherited merely two
lines of the previous common system, or more precisely one complete and
one half of a severed line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U5_%28Berlin_U-Bahn%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U2_%28Berlin_U-Bahn%29

Three other lines of the system touched East Berlin territory but were
not useable for its citizens because two were part of the West Berlin
half of the network.

Well, the GDR could have severed those two U-Bahn lines, too. But
they did let the Westberlin BVG continue to operate it. This was a
decision of the GDR, not of the Western side.

Fact is, those two very short lines would make hardly any sense for
intra-East traffic, and their operation would furthermore present
serious technical problems because they were wide-profile lines. There
may be a link from what is now called U8 to the U5 line (currently with
western terminus at Alexanderplatz), but the Friedrichstraße line would
have been completely isolated, no access to a maintenance yard.


Cheers,
L.W.

In uk.railway Lüko Willms twisted the electrons to say:
Am 09.01.2012 20:05, schrieb Alistair Gunn:
The most deaths, presumably, are in the Mediterranean Sea.
Those deaths being caused by EU border guards shooting people in the back
as they attempt to engage in "Republikflucht"?
Well, people have to overcome the border in any way. The cause of
their death is the big wall of Fortress Europe.

Noone *has* to cross any border ...

BTW, did you see this great film about the journey of two youngsters
from Afghanistan to London, where one of them lost his life in a
container on the way? It got a special price a number of years at the
Berlinale film festival. Unfortunately I can't remember the title of the
film.

Nope, though I'd question whether the UK was the first "safe" country
they reached if I was considering an asylum claim ...
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Am 10.01.2012 17:58, schrieb Alistair Gunn:

Noone*has* to cross any border ...

Quoted from an SED press release?

In uk.railway Lüko Willms twisted the electrons to say:
Am 10.01.2012 17:58, schrieb Alistair Gunn:
Noone*has* to cross any border ...
Quoted from an SED press release?

Nope, a simple statement of objective fact! (Though I imagine you're far
more familiar with SED PR material than I.) I notice you also don't see
a difference between countries restricting entry and restricting exit,
was that in a SED PR piece which you lapped up at some point?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...