Simon Hewison wrote in message ...
In article , Dave Newt wrote:

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

I have noticed that at Finchley Central, the gates in the ticket hall have
had their slots for paper tickets taped up, and they're now just acting
as entry/exit validators. (They were placed in a rather silly place
anyway as you could easily just walk around to the other side of the gates).

But (e.g. in Totteridge) can't you just use the Oyster validator
machine next to the ticket gates to end your journey?? - regardless of
what the gates are set to?

In message , Simon Hewison
writes
Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

In article ,
Kat wrote:
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned,

Manned, too; at East Finchley last night, all the gates were in
exit mode.

Although there were staff about, I didn't bother them. I'll get
the inevitable unsresolved journey fixed when I pick up a customer
charter form at the next queue-free ticket office I see. [1]


[1] I would have been rude; I'd just walked from Finchley Central,
and was a bit cold, a bit late, and quite a lot ****ed off.

--
You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's.

Some gates at East Finchley only work in one direction so there should
always be one validator for way in and way out.
There is also a stand alone validator which works in both directions but it
has a long term problem so probably was not working.
The only trouble comes when an emergency plunger is pressed as this will set
all gates to exit only.
East Finchley is also a depot station so many of the staff you see are
drivers and therefore have no direct knowledge about the gates.
At present there are meant to be six staff on a roster working the gates.
However only one vacancy is filled.

Thanks for not being to vocal about the problems. There were enough people
this morning making there views known. I have yet to find out why decisions
were made but the staff in charge are experienced and would not shut a
station unless they really had to. Apologies on there behalf.


"Mike Bristow" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Kat wrote:
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned,

Manned, too; at East Finchley last night, all the gates were in
exit mode.

Although there were staff about, I didn't bother them. I'll get
the inevitable unsresolved journey fixed when I pick up a customer
charter form at the next queue-free ticket office I see. [1]


[1] I would have been rude; I'd just walked from Finchley Central,
and was a bit cold, a bit late, and quite a lot ****ed off.

--
You dont have to be illiterate to use the Internet, but it help's.

wrote in message . ..
[snip]

You have to validate in at Waterloo (Waterloo & City) platforms, as
you always need to have swiped in and out for the part of your journey
where Prepay is valid, even if you havea vaild travelcard covering all
the zones.

But I have already swiped in at Vauxhall NR and the signs say quite
clearly that only Prepay users need to swipe.

As far as I can see you should always swipe an even number of times.
Hence in at Vauxhall NR and out at Shadwell DLR rather than in at
Vauxhall NR, in again at Waterloo W&C then out at Shadwell DLR - which
looks like an unresolved journey to me. Although I did give the W&C
validators a go today and it did appear as 'enter' which was matched
by an 'exit' at Shadwell - so this would appear to be the correct
solution. I did ask at the Shadwell ELL ticket office when clearing
previous unresolved journeys and as far as they could see Vauxhall NR
had never been recorded on my card - it was invisible to the system -
and I had never used my card there as far as they could tell.

Validating midway through a journey sounds like it should cause an
unresolved journey, but apparently in this case it does not (probably
because Vauxhall NR does not exist). But when I travel Farringdon -
King's Cross Thameslink - Oxford Circus it does not need the
additional validation on the Thameslink machines to resolve correctly
- maybe because Farringdon is an LUL gateline?

I would be interested to know if all Oyster equipped NR stations are
equally invisible to the system or if this is some quirk of Vauxhall
NR. Has anyone else managed to make a journey through an NR Oyster
gateline without getting an unresolved journey in the process? I can't
be the only person in London having this problem

--
Gareth Davis

(Gareth Davis) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message . ..
[snip]

You have to validate in at Waterloo (Waterloo & City) platforms, as
you always need to have swiped in and out for the part of your journey
where Prepay is valid, even if you havea vaild travelcard covering all
the zones.

But I have already swiped in at Vauxhall NR and the signs say quite
clearly that only Prepay users need to swipe.

Yes, you must ignore the signs, and treat NR gates as purely there for
access control with your valid Travelcard.

On the other hand, some LU stations will not charge you for unresolved
journeys if you have a valid travelcard, such as Kentish Town, Queens
Park, and any station where a non-Prepay journey might be possible.

Matthew

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:17:26 +0000, Kat
wrote:
When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)

That's interesting... As a user I'd have expected that *any* barrier
with a card reader on my side of the gate would be OK. I suppose I'd
be more likely to approach a gate with a green arrow if it's quiet.

What happens if a station needs to be evacuated? Once the message
about "touch out", and the potential expense if you don't has sunk in,
will people be more difficult to shift from the station in an
emergency? Not a new problem - the Paris metro discovered it 101
years ago at Couronnes with terrible results.

Thanks,

Richard.

"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:17:26 +0000, Kat
wrote:
When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)

That's interesting... As a user I'd have expected that *any* barrier
with a card reader on my side of the gate would be OK. I suppose I'd
be more likely to approach a gate with a green arrow if it's quiet.

What happens if a station needs to be evacuated? Once the message
about "touch out", and the potential expense if you don't has sunk in,
will people be more difficult to shift from the station in an
emergency? Not a new problem - the Paris metro discovered it 101
years ago at Couronnes with terrible results.

Thanks,

Richard.

Many staff have asked the same question but there is no corporate answer
yet. It just adds to the trouble already discussed in another thread about
evacuations. The other thing that has not been addressed is a local power
failure. Some stations can remain open but would have no facility for the
Oyster cards. When I asked about this I was told it would never happen!

"Anon" wrote in message ...
"Richard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:17:26 +0000, Kat
wrote:
When gates are set Open (from the SCU) they are still set in either
entry or exit mode. Whichever sort you need to validate the start or
finish of your journey, look for gates which have their paddles on the
side away from you.
I can see that this is a problem for stations which for staffing reasons
have the gateline unmanned, so thank you for an interesting point.
(This applies to electronic gates; as I've never worked at a station
with pneumatic gates, I don't know how they behave.)

That's interesting... As a user I'd have expected that *any* barrier
with a card reader on my side of the gate would be OK. I suppose I'd
be more likely to approach a gate with a green arrow if it's quiet.

What happens if a station needs to be evacuated? Once the message
about "touch out", and the potential expense if you don't has sunk in,
will people be more difficult to shift from the station in an
emergency? Not a new problem - the Paris metro discovered it 101
years ago at Couronnes with terrible results.

Thanks,

Richard.

Many staff have asked the same question but there is no corporate answer
yet. It just adds to the trouble already discussed in another thread about
evacuations. The other thing that has not been addressed is a local power
failure. Some stations can remain open but would have no facility for the
Oyster cards. When I asked about this I was told it would never happen!

IMO if a station is evacuated for any reason, TfL have two ways to deal
with Oystercards:

1. Set up a booth with a battery-powered wireless validator and simply have
everyone touch their card to erase the entry record, then let them go.
2. Do the same as above, but instead generate an exit record and charge them
for their abortive journey.

We can all guess how much angst #2 would cause...

Brad

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...

IMO if a station is evacuated for any reason, TfL have two ways to deal
with Oystercards:

1. Set up a booth with a battery-powered wireless validator and simply
have
everyone touch their card to erase the entry record, then let them go.
2. Do the same as above, but instead generate an exit record and charge
them
for their abortive journey.

Or option 3. Cancel all unresolved journeys on the central system for people
who could have been effected. Having had local staff make announcements that
you won't be charged.

Dave.