In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.
If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

On Tue, 20 Jan 2004 09:35:19 +0000, Kat
wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.
If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

Oh dear - I think I need to book myself on the Oyster training course.
That'll teach me to apply my old knowledge of ticket logic. I must
re-read the intranet notes on error 24 again then.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

Kat wrote:

In message , Paul Corfield
writes
My guess is that the gates at South Woodford didn't let you out because
there was no recorded entry point given that you had travelled beyond
your zonal availability. The system needs to know where you entered to
calculate any pre-pay deduction as you could have entered at Zone 6 at
Epping or equally Zone 5 in West London.

Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.

....but there was no unresolved journey. It worked fine when I next used
it (the next day).

In a way, whether Paul is right or wrong, it seems to make more sense,
logically.

If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

'Fraid I don't know - neither me nor the SAs looked (well, they might
have done, but they didn't comment). Possible, though it would have been
a bit of a coinkidink do have stumbled upon a dodgy gate as well as
everything else...

Ah well, we live and (don't) learn!

Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

I've saved a small fortune out of zone recently because the gates at
stations are open and the Oyster readers don't do anything (no noise,
no LED, nothing recorded on the card) when you touch your card on
them.

There's no point in these endless "remember to touch your card on the
reader even if the gates are open" messages and posters if the readers
are all switched off!

This has happened to me at London Bridge, Morden, South Wimbledon and
Vauxhall (NR) in the past two weeks - I want to give TfL my money but
apparently they don't want it!

In message , Dave Newt
writes
Kat wrote:
Even under those circumstances, the gate will show a 24 code but will
open and he wouldn't have been able to use the Oyster subsequently until
the unresolved journey or Pre Pay debit had been cleared.

...but there was no unresolved journey. It worked fine when I next used
it (the next day).

Exactly... That's why it shouldn't have been a code 24

In a way, whether Paul is right or wrong, it seems to make more sense,
logically.

Maybe but it's not the way it's been set up to work.
A Pre Pay debit should not stop you from leaving the system; it just
prevents you from re-entering until it's been cleared.

I think that I mentioned in another thread that I don't know the
reasoning behind this but I guess that it's better to have people who
need to pay the debit on the unpaid side of the gates. They then have
the choice of machines, ticket office, phone or online to add Pre Pay
and clear the debit instead of waiting at a (usually) unmanned excess
fares window on the paid side.

If Dave can remember the code which showed it might be possible to work
out what was going on. It's much more likely to have been a
communication error between the Oyster and the gate.

'Fraid I don't know - neither me nor the SAs looked (well, they might
have done, but they didn't comment). Possible, though it would have been
a bit of a coinkidink do have stumbled upon a dodgy gate as well as
everything else...

It's not impossible that there was some sort of widespread system
failure at that time... I'd gone home by then and after an afternoon of
Sunderland supporters, I was glad to.

Ah well, we live and (don't) learn!

Early days... I have great faith that it will all work beautifully in
the end.
--
Kat Me, Ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

In article , Dave Newt wrote:

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

I have noticed that at Finchley Central, the gates in the ticket hall have
had their slots for paper tickets taped up, and they're now just acting
as entry/exit validators. (They were placed in a rather silly place
anyway as you could easily just walk around to the other side of the gates).

--
Simon Hewison

Simon Hewison wrote in
:


There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't
just leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past
few years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

And Old Street today. This morning going out, gates locked open, Oyster
readers taped over. The one member of staff seemed quite put out when I
asked him how I should validate my Oyster outbound since I have pre-pay
as well as a travelcard on it, then moved away from the only working
outbound reader so that I could now see it and use it.

Going in this evening, main gates locked open, Oyster readers not even
showing red. Since I was early, it wasn't too busy, so I looked around
and found the only inbound Oyster reader working off to one side. (but
no-one to ask what was going on, and no notices).

Given that I have noted that there are now significant number of Oysters
in use, this is not looking good.

van

I will look into the Totteridge problem. I would of thought that some of the
gates are not reversible so you should always have a way in and a way out.
Not withstanding any faults of course. Gates should always be left in an
open position if there are no staff.

Finchley Central gates have not been commissioned as such because staff have
no place of safety available and more importantly there is a total lack of
space in the ticket hall.

The hazard tape has been put the

1, To stop the use of paper tickets as they can create faults and
subsequently close the gates.
2, If a customer was to loose their ticket there may not be a member of
staff available to retrieve it.
3, On top of one of the sensors as the gate is set for exit only and as the
gates are permanently open people were putting their oyster card on it
thinking it would work.

Since the introduction of pre-pay there has been a increase in the amount of
people using the sensors however some just ignore the warning bleep and so
do not validate their oyster properly and some use the exit validators on
the way in. These people will at one time end up with unresolved journeys or
worse pay to much for their journey. My hope is that they will learn quickly

"Simon Hewison" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave Newt wrote:

Leyton tube about 8pm Saturday night.

Hope there weren't too many pre-pay people going through...

Not Leyton, but Totteridge and Whetstone, for a few days all the gates
were set to "Entry only", but with the gates open. The oystercard readers
on the 'inside' part of the gates had no lights whatsoever, and wouldn't
accept. Problem then was on walking through the 'open' gates, it picked
up an attempt to enter again, leaving an unresolved journey on there and
a potential overcharge. The station, as it often is, was unmanned.

There is clearly a need for station staff to understand they can't just
leave the gates in the state that they've been in for the past few
years. (open, and in whatever state they happen to be in).

I have noticed that at Finchley Central, the gates in the ticket hall have
had their slots for paper tickets taped up, and they're now just acting
as entry/exit validators. (They were placed in a rather silly place
anyway as you could easily just walk around to the other side of the
gates).

--
Simon Hewison

(Matt Ashby) wrote in message . com...
Are you certain the readers were off? The gates can be set to open but
wouldn't normally be powered down unless there's a fault.

I've saved a small fortune out of zone recently because the gates at
stations are open and the Oyster readers don't do anything (no noise,
no LED, nothing recorded on the card) when you touch your card on
them.

There's no point in these endless "remember to touch your card on the
reader even if the gates are open" messages and posters if the readers
are all switched off!

This has happened to me at London Bridge, Morden, South Wimbledon and
Vauxhall (NR) in the past two weeks - I want to give TfL my money but
apparently they don't want it!

As I mentioned in another thread the Vauxhall NR reader do not seem to
update the status of the card as you pass through. I often take
Vauxhall NR - Waterloo - Bank - Shadwell DLR (SWT and the Drain is
usually quicker than underground via Oxford Circus) but if I use the
Oyster to enter at Vauxhall NR then use the validators on exit at
Shadwell DLR the screens at Shadwell show 'Enter' rather than 'Exit'
and I get an unresolved journey, even though it is all within my
Travelcard zones. Vauxhall NR also does not show up on the journey
record on the large ticket machines - although the DLR also shows up
as blanks come to think of it.

I guess there must be more journeys like this where it is better to
ignore the advice to always validate on enter/exit. Although if I
enter inside the underground and don't validate at Shadwell then I
also get an unresolved journey. Besides, the DLR signs clearly say
only pre-pay customers need to validate - so is it because I have
some credit on my oyster card that I get unresolved journeys or am I
just reading the signs/posters wrong?

--
Gareth Davis

As I mentioned in another thread the Vauxhall NR reader do not seem to
update the status of the card as you pass through. I often take
Vauxhall NR - Waterloo - Bank - Shadwell DLR (SWT and the Drain is
usually quicker than underground via Oxford Circus) but if I use the
Oyster to enter at Vauxhall NR then use the validators on exit at
Shadwell DLR the screens at Shadwell show 'Enter' rather than 'Exit'
and I get an unresolved journey, even though it is all within my
Travelcard zones. Vauxhall NR also does not show up on the journey
record on the large ticket machines - although the DLR also shows up
as blanks come to think of it.

You have to validate in at Waterloo (Waterloo & City) platforms, as
you always need to have swiped in and out for the part of your journey
where Prepay is valid, even if you havea vaild travelcard covering all
the zones.