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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service
won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
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#3
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
Mizter T wrote:
On 21/12/2014 21:49, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. Guessing but perhaps "used to" are the operative words in that sentence, i.e. the power supply kit / arrangements on the line have changed since 1982. And maybe 5-car 378s, with modern traction equipment, need more power than old tube trains (1972 stock, presumably)? |
#5
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:14:01 -0600
wrote: In article rg, (Recliner) wrote: Mizter T wrote: On 21/12/2014 21:49, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. Guessing but perhaps "used to" are the operative words in that sentence, i.e. the power supply kit / arrangements on the line have changed since 1982. And maybe 5-car 378s, with modern traction equipment, need more power than old tube trains (1972 stock, presumably)? 1938 stock actually. I guessed it's the same as the Southern. Massive power supply upgrades were needed for the switch from camshaft-controlled stock to power electronics. You have to wonder why it was necessary if the claims about electronic control being more efficient are true. Surely that couldn't have been marketing fluff could it? -- Spud |
#6
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
In article , d
() wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:14:01 -0600 wrote: In article -september. org, (Recliner) wrote: Mizter T wrote: On 21/12/2014 21:49, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. Guessing but perhaps "used to" are the operative words in that sentence, i.e. the power supply kit / arrangements on the line have changed since 1982. And maybe 5-car 378s, with modern traction equipment, need more power than old tube trains (1972 stock, presumably)? 1938 stock actually. I guessed it's the same as the Southern. Massive power supply upgrades were needed for the switch from camshaft-controlled stock to power electronics. You have to wonder why it was necessary if the claims about electronic control being more efficient are true. Surely that couldn't have been marketing fluff could it? I now recall reading about it at the time. The characteristics are different and break old supplies. The efficiency mainly comes from regeneration of course. I think my question was really because I didn't realise the new 5th cars were powered. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
#7
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2014 15:49:04 -0600, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. The line is basically full of old restrictive "make do and mend" signalling and traction current. It's no shock that putting bigger trains on to the route might be enough to tip things over. The traction supply has been strengthened or replaced on all the LU routes that are getting major upgrades and new rolling stock. I think the TfL game plan is simply to put new 4 car trains on the route. These have been added to the GOBLIN / West Anglia order. The 5 car trains displaced will be diverted to strengthen other Overground routes. Clearly those trains won't turn up until 2017. As reported elsewhere there are also issues with the traction current supply nearer to Watford where the Met extension would run over NR tracks. Costs have gone up because of the need to do something to the traction current supply. There is little detail in public at the moment but I'd guess the parsimony and cut backs of the 80s are now having an impact at far, far greater cost. So true! I've been watching the Borders Railway videos and can't stop thinking how much they would have saved by not closing the line in the first place. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
#8
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
wrote:
In article , d () wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:14:01 -0600 wrote: In article -september. , (Recliner) wrote: Mizter T wrote: On 21/12/2014 21:49, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. Guessing but perhaps "used to" are the operative words in that sentence, i.e. the power supply kit / arrangements on the line have changed since 1982. And maybe 5-car 378s, with modern traction equipment, need more power than old tube trains (1972 stock, presumably)? 1938 stock actually. I guessed it's the same as the Southern. Massive power supply upgrades were needed for the switch from camshaft-controlled stock to power electronics. You have to wonder why it was necessary if the claims about electronic control being more efficient are true. Surely that couldn't have been marketing fluff could it? I now recall reading about it at the time. The characteristics are different and break old supplies. The efficiency mainly comes from regeneration of course. I think my question was really because I didn't realise the new 5th cars were powered. I think the new traction packages draw a much heavier current during the initial acceleration phase. It was one of the urgent projects the SRA had to deal with when the new 'lardbutt' Siemens Desiro trains were introduced by SWT. I seem to remember Roger Ford writing about in MR at the time. The old traction supplies might also need beefing up to cope with regeneration as well. |
#9
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
On 22.12.14 15:03, Recliner wrote:
wrote: In article , d () wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:14:01 -0600 wrote: In article -september. , (Recliner) wrote: Mizter T wrote: On 21/12/2014 21:49, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. Guessing but perhaps "used to" are the operative words in that sentence, i.e. the power supply kit / arrangements on the line have changed since 1982. And maybe 5-car 378s, with modern traction equipment, need more power than old tube trains (1972 stock, presumably)? 1938 stock actually. I guessed it's the same as the Southern. Massive power supply upgrades were needed for the switch from camshaft-controlled stock to power electronics. You have to wonder why it was necessary if the claims about electronic control being more efficient are true. Surely that couldn't have been marketing fluff could it? I now recall reading about it at the time. The characteristics are different and break old supplies. The efficiency mainly comes from regeneration of course. I think my question was really because I didn't realise the new 5th cars were powered. I think the new traction packages draw a much heavier current during the initial acceleration phase. It was one of the urgent projects the SRA had to deal with when the new 'lardbutt' Siemens Desiro trains were introduced by SWT. I seem to remember Roger Ford writing about in MR at the time. The old traction supplies might also need beefing up to cope with regeneration as well. Forgive me, please, if I asked this question earlier, but what's the deal at this point with re-extending the Bakerloo Line out to Watford Junction? Or is that dead with the emphasis now on extending further south from Elephant & Castle? IIRC, one of the reasons that LUL service has not developed much south of the river is because that part of town is largely on sand. |
#10
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5 car Overground trains to Watford Junction
" wrote:
On 22.12.14 15:03, Recliner wrote: wrote: In article , d () wrote: On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 06:14:01 -0600 wrote: In article -september. , (Recliner) wrote: Mizter T wrote: On 21/12/2014 21:49, wrote: I read in a magazine that Overground trains on the Euston-Watford service won't be able to be extended to 5 cars until power supply upgrades have taken place. I don't understand why power supply upgrades are is needed. This route used to be served by 7 car Bakerloo Line trains. Guessing but perhaps "used to" are the operative words in that sentence, i.e. the power supply kit / arrangements on the line have changed since 1982. And maybe 5-car 378s, with modern traction equipment, need more power than old tube trains (1972 stock, presumably)? 1938 stock actually. I guessed it's the same as the Southern. Massive power supply upgrades were needed for the switch from camshaft-controlled stock to power electronics. You have to wonder why it was necessary if the claims about electronic control being more efficient are true. Surely that couldn't have been marketing fluff could it? I now recall reading about it at the time. The characteristics are different and break old supplies. The efficiency mainly comes from regeneration of course. I think my question was really because I didn't realise the new 5th cars were powered. I think the new traction packages draw a much heavier current during the initial acceleration phase. It was one of the urgent projects the SRA had to deal with when the new 'lardbutt' Siemens Desiro trains were introduced by SWT. I seem to remember Roger Ford writing about in MR at the time. The old traction supplies might also need beefing up to cope with regeneration as well. Forgive me, please, if I asked this question earlier, but what's the deal at this point with re-extending the Bakerloo Line out to Watford Junction? Or is that dead with the emphasis now on extending further south from Elephant & Castle? That's been dead for years, long before the southern extension of the Bakerloo became an active proposal. And there's no chance if it now, with the Met also going to Watford Junction. IIRC, one of the reasons that LUL service has not developed much south of the river is because that part of town is largely on sand. That was part of the original reason a century or more ago, but it's not much of an issue with modern tunnelling methods. Ditto with building larger diameter tunnels, so we won't see any all-new small gauge tube lines. |
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