On 27/03/2015 09:51, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 09:43:06 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/03/2015 09:27, d wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 20:04:06 +0000
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Thu, 26 Mar 2015 09:28:23 +0000 (UTC),
d wrote:
Pffft. You ever travelled by bus in london in the rush hour? Might as well
walk.

If it was the rush hour, I'd probably use a train instead to get to a
Thameslink station.

And if they hadn't ripped up the track west of Mill Hill East you could
have done.

Actually apart from a couple of small houses which could easily be compulsory
purchased the trackbed is clear all the way to Copthall and a bit beyond.
If LU ever has any spare cash lying around they could do worse than re-extend
back there since its a large housing area plus a sports stadium.


Isn't that the section cut by the construction of the M1 or am I
thinking of the wrong branch?

Copthall is before that section. Beyond that the trackbed is long buried
first under an office block now a housing estate so the M1 isn't the only
obstacle. Google maps gives a nice view.


Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great advantage
of extending to Copthall.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:34:37 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great advantage
of extending to Copthall.

Not sure where you're looking but they're definately houses.

--
Spud

On 27/03/2015 13:04, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:34:37 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great advantage
of extending to Copthall.

Not sure where you're looking but they're definately houses.



https://goo.gl/maps/PaOGs The block in the background is right on the
extended line from Mill Hill East.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

I've walked along that section of abandoned line, and you could squeeze a double track through, although it would pass uncomfortably close to the building. Compulsory purchase the block, rebuild the line, then sell the flats again at a slightly reduced price.

However, Copthall only sees a match once a fortnight and seems to be coping with free shutt buses from Mill Hill Broadway. If you wanted to go all the way to Edgware, you've got the M1 and an industrial estate on the track bed, and they're just in the process of building a small housing development immediately west of the A1/A41.

On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 17:10:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/03/2015 13:04, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:34:37 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great advantage
of extending to Copthall.

Not sure where you're looking but they're definately houses.



https://goo.gl/maps/PaOGs The block in the background is right on the
extended line from Mill Hill East.

Just because they're square doesn't mean they're flats. They're houses. Though
looks like there are 4 in the way, not 2. Even so, still irrelevant in the
scheme of things. Maybe a million or 2 to buy out compared to the cost of the
extension which would probably run to 7 or 8 digits.

--
Spud

On 30/03/2015 10:55, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 17:10:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/03/2015 13:04, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:34:37 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great advantage
of extending to Copthall.

Not sure where you're looking but they're definately houses.



https://goo.gl/maps/PaOGs The block in the background is right on the
extended line from Mill Hill East.

Just because they're square doesn't mean they're flats. They're houses. Though
looks like there are 4 in the way, not 2. Even so, still irrelevant in the
scheme of things. Maybe a million or 2 to buy out compared to the cost of the
extension which would probably run to 7 or 8 digits.


Still don't see what you would achieve by extending unless you could get
across the M1 to the main line.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:59:21 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 30/03/2015 10:55, d wrote:
Just because they're square doesn't mean they're flats. They're houses.
Though
looks like there are 4 in the way, not 2. Even so, still irrelevant in the
scheme of things. Maybe a million or 2 to buy out compared to the cost of the
extension which would probably run to 7 or 8 digits.


Still don't see what you would achieve by extending unless you could get
across the M1 to the main line.

What would be achieved is better tube access for residents of that part of
Mill Hill and easier access to copthall stadium for people who don't live
there.

Anyway , its all moot since it'll never happen. TfL would far rather spend
billions digging new holes in south london (northern & bakerloo extension)
which is already over served with rail transport, than upgrading anything in
north london for a tenth the price. IMO.

--
Spud

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:09:14 +0000 (UTC),
d wrote:

On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:59:21 +0100
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 30/03/2015 10:55, d wrote:
Just because they're square doesn't mean they're flats. They're houses.
Though
looks like there are 4 in the way, not 2. Even so, still irrelevant in the
scheme of things. Maybe a million or 2 to buy out compared to the cost of the
extension which would probably run to 7 or 8 digits.


Still don't see what you would achieve by extending unless you could get
across the M1 to the main line.

What would be achieved is better tube access for residents of that part of
Mill Hill and easier access to copthall stadium for people who don't live
there.

Anyway , its all moot since it'll never happen. TfL would far rather spend
billions digging new holes in south london (northern & bakerloo extension)
which is already over served with rail transport, than upgrading anything in
north london for a tenth the price. IMO.

Despite the efforts of the SR and its predecessors there are still
assorted holes in the railway coverage of South London.

On 2015\03\30 10:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 30/03/2015 10:55, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 17:10:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/03/2015 13:04, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:34:37 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great advantage
of extending to Copthall.

Not sure where you're looking but they're definately houses.



https://goo.gl/maps/PaOGs The block in the background is right on the
extended line from Mill Hill East.

Just because they're square doesn't mean they're flats. They're
houses. Though
looks like there are 4 in the way, not 2. Even so, still irrelevant in
the
scheme of things. Maybe a million or 2 to buy out compared to the cost
of the
extension which would probably run to 7 or 8 digits.


Still don't see what you would achieve by extending unless you could get
across the M1 to the main line.

This argument is cracking me up. I'm trying to picture the architects of
the M1 saying "We can't build a motorway from London to Leeds because
there are 37 railways in the way."

If there was demand for the Northern Line to go to Mill Hill Broadway, a
tunnel would be dug. Single would probably be enough, although you'd
want to redouble the surface part from Finchley Central to Copthall. But
the fact that they've never bothered putting an interchange by Colindeep
Lane where the Edgware branch crosses the Thameslink route makes me
query the business case for a Mill Hill interchange, even if a surface
alignment could be found and the existing bridges were double track.

Incidentally, I just realized how ironic it is that Belsize Park had
deep level shelters constructed beneath the Northern Line platforms,
when they could have dug two platform tunnels on the Thameslink line and
used them as shelters instead. Although, perhaps they wouldn't have been
deep enough for the purpose, and their construction would have probably
required several months of closure of two tracks on interrupted
operation of the Thameslink Line. Having said that, wouldn't
construction of the deep level tubes have caused settlement in the
Northern Line? Were speed restrictions imposed during their construction?

On 30/03/2015 12:02, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\03\30 10:59, Graeme Wall wrote:
On 30/03/2015 10:55, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 17:10:52 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 27/03/2015 13:04, d wrote:
On Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:34:37 +0000
Graeme Wall wrote:
Your small houses appear to be 2 blocks of 8 flats each and you still
end up the wrong side of the M1. Can't really see the great
advantage
of extending to Copthall.

Not sure where you're looking but they're definately houses.



https://goo.gl/maps/PaOGs The block in the background is right on
the
extended line from Mill Hill East.

Just because they're square doesn't mean they're flats. They're
houses. Though
looks like there are 4 in the way, not 2. Even so, still irrelevant in
the
scheme of things. Maybe a million or 2 to buy out compared to the cost
of the
extension which would probably run to 7 or 8 digits.


Still don't see what you would achieve by extending unless you could get
across the M1 to the main line.

This argument is cracking me up. I'm trying to picture the architects of
the M1 saying "We can't build a motorway from London to Leeds because
there are 37 railways in the way."

It's not that the M1 is an insuperable barrier but the only point in
extending the Northern Line from Mill Hill East would be to link it to
Broadway station which lies the other side of the M1/A1 corridor.
There's also an extensive housing development to negotiate, presumably
in tunnel, before that. Oh and Spud's two or four houses actually near
the tube station.

Oh and the architects of the M1 probably said, don't worry about the
railways they'll all be gone in a couple of years :-)


If there was demand for the Northern Line to go to Mill Hill Broadway, a
tunnel would be dug. Single would probably be enough, although you'd
want to redouble the surface part from Finchley Central to Copthall. But
the fact that they've never bothered putting an interchange by Colindeep
Lane where the Edgware branch crosses the Thameslink route makes me
query the business case for a Mill Hill interchange, even if a surface
alignment could be found and the existing bridges were double track.

Precisely my point. It is relatively trivial from an engineering point
of view to get the line from East to Broadway, it just takes money but I
can't see that there is any business case for it. Apart from a putative
link to Copthall stadium where is the traffic going to come from to
make it worthwhile doing? Rugby Union crowds are still a fraction of
those attending soccer matches. A couple of thousand fans once a
fortnight between September and May is not a major traffic flow.


Incidentally, I just realized how ironic it is that Belsize Park had
deep level shelters constructed beneath the Northern Line platforms,
when they could have dug two platform tunnels on the Thameslink line and
used them as shelters instead. Although, perhaps they wouldn't have been
deep enough for the purpose, and their construction would have probably
required several months of closure of two tracks on interrupted
operation of the Thameslink Line.

The Northern Line tunnels were, of course, intended to be part of a post
war express line.


--
Graeme Wall
This account not read, substitute trains for rail.
Railway Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail