On 28.09.16 15:02, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:51:36 +0100, "
wrote:

On 28.09.16 14:07, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:52:28 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 10:32:54 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
Rode on the bakerloo for the first time in years today. My god the 72 stock
is looking and sounding tired. Whoever is keeping them running is certainly
earning their money. Anyone know when replacements on the way? IIRC there is
going to be a block order for a number of lines.

Yes, see the many discussions on the NTfL, some of which you participated
in.

I was wondering about the state of play now, rather than what tfl promised
X years ago.

According to this report, bids were due to be submitted two days ago:
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/business/single-view/view/bombardier-hitachi-joint-venture-to-bid-for-new-tube-for-london.html

Alstom, CAF and Siemens are also bidding.

The 1972 stock probably won't be replaced for at least a decade, as
the 1973 stock is first in the queue.

I would think that they would prioritise replacing the 73ts as this is
one of the first things that many people see when arriving into London
via LHR.

Yes, but that's not the reason. The plan is to resignal the Picc for a
more intensive service, which needs the new trains.

I thought that they were also planning to convert the line to crewless,
similar to what they have done on the Paris Metro's Line 1 and what they
were planning to do on Line 4.

The Bakerloo line
is relatively quiet (at least till it gets extended), and might even
get quieter when the Met gets to Watford Junction.

Yeah, I don't really recall a time when I was on a very crowded Bakerloo
line train.

On 28.09.16 16:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:51:36 +0100
" wrote:
I would think that they would prioritise replacing the 73ts as this is
one of the first things that many people see when arriving into London
via LHR.

Given the hammering they must take both internally and on the running gear with
the large passenger numbers on the long runs out to Heathrow & Uxbridge, the
73 stock are in quite good nick IMHO.

Last I heard, they were the most reliable LU trains.

They most probably are.

I am guessing, however, that besides just the plan to resignal the
Piccadilly, LUL also want to go for the aesthetic and high-tech angle.

On 28.09.16 15:20, Neil Williams wrote:
On 2016-09-28 14:08:05 +0000, d said:

Wonder if TfL are going for the oldest metro trains in regular public
service
in europe, or maybe even the world record?

The old Hamburg 471/871 units lasted for around 65-70 years before
finally being decommissioned, so they've a way to go.

Neil


I know that Buenos Aires had that honour until a few years ago, when
they finally decommissioned their Belgian rolling stock, though I don't
know who has that honour at this time.

My guess is that Bakerloo is in the running with the 72ts, though I know
that some old Soviet equipment built in the late 60s/early 70s is still
running around the Budapest and Kiev. (That technology is much older,
though apparently those trains are very reliable.)

On 28.09.16 15:25, Recliner wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:08:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:07:03 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The 1972 stock probably won't be replaced for at least a decade, as
the 1973 stock is first in the queue.

Wonder if TfL are going for the oldest metro trains in regular public service
in europe, or maybe even the world record?

They'll have trouble beating the IoW. Several other LU fleets have got
to 50 years, including the 1938 and A stocks. I think the Paris Metro
still has MF67 trains built in the early 1970s.

The Pyongyang Metro uses ex-West Berlin U-Bahn stock dating from
around 1960. It looked clean and in good nick when I travelled on it
in 2013:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57633424928749

Dorotas? I thought that they were also built in the 60s/70s.

They were good, well-built trains, from what I saw and heard, so it is
not surprising that Pyongyang bought a few.

Did you see any Gielas when there, BTW? I know that they were running
for a while in revenue service, but I haven't seen any images of them in
a while. I do know that some Giselas went to regional rail service and
some to the government metro lines, but I wonder if any are running
around on the Hyeoksin Line as that is the one that outsiders are less
likely to see.

Having said that, the Pyongyang Metro has reportedly introduced new and
modern rolling stock, though some have said that it looks a lot like a
Gisela. So, they could have stripped one down, leaving only the body,
and rebuilt -- similar to what they did with Soviet 81-series trains on
the Prague Metro. The seating on those was certainly similar to that,
which I myself saw on Giselas, I must say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcfmx8X-LMg


However, the two (known) lines are entirely underground, and the train
speeds seemed quite low.

Any number of reasons -- speed restriction, energy conservation, poor
track, recent trackwork.

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:25:56 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The Pyongyang Metro uses ex-West Berlin U-Bahn stock dating from
around 1960. It looked clean and in good nick when I travelled on it
in 2013:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57633424928749

I'm impressed you got away with taking those pictures without getting hauled
off for interrogation. Very ornate stations tho I don't think it'll ever be
on my to-visit list frankly.

--
Spud

Recliner wrote on 28 Sep 2016 at 15:25 ...
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:08:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:07:03 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The 1972 stock probably won't be replaced for at least a decade, as
the 1973 stock is first in the queue.

Wonder if TfL are going for the oldest metro trains in regular public service
in europe, or maybe even the world record?

They'll have trouble beating the IoW. Several other LU fleets have got
to 50 years, including the 1938 and A stocks. I think the Paris Metro
still has MF67 trains built in the early 1970s.

The Paris Métro still has MP59 trains in service on line 11. These are
rubber-tyred trains delivered from 1963 to 1973. MF67 trains are indeed
still in use, on lines 3, 10, 12 and possibly a few on line 9.

--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:25:56 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The Pyongyang Metro uses ex-West Berlin U-Bahn stock dating from
around 1960. It looked clean and in good nick when I travelled on it
in 2013:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57633424928749

I'm impressed you got away with taking those pictures without getting hauled
off for interrogation. Very ornate stations tho I don't think it'll ever be
on my to-visit list frankly.

Yes, those three stations are very ornate; others we passed through were
more utilitarian, like most things in North Korea. With a couple of
exceptions, photography wasn't restricted in the areas tourists can visit.
The bits they really don't want you to photograph aren't open to visit at
all.

One place where you can't take a camera in is the sacred waxworks, the
Kumsusan Palace of the Sun:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7633470265514/

The other is the international gifts museum, showing off the often bizarre
and tasteless gifts received by the Kim dynasty over the years:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7634297202747/

The guide was perplexed how few gifts were from the UK. They were mainly
from British admirers of the Juche ideology (people like our friend Hils),
and I had to explain to him that the British and DPRK governments didn't
get on. There were whole rooms in the huge, multi-level underground bunker
full of gaudy gifts from some third world countries.

In both places, you were free to take as many exterior pics as you wanted.
Curiously, we were far more restricted in what we could visit, see and
photograph on the southern side of the DMZ; the northern side was far more
relaxed:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7633469222908/

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:50:14 +0100
"Richard J." wrote:
Recliner wrote on 28 Sep 2016 at 15:25 ...
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:08:05 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:07:03 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The 1972 stock probably won't be replaced for at least a decade, as
the 1973 stock is first in the queue.

Wonder if TfL are going for the oldest metro trains in regular public
service
in europe, or maybe even the world record?

They'll have trouble beating the IoW. Several other LU fleets have got
to 50 years, including the 1938 and A stocks. I think the Paris Metro
still has MF67 trains built in the early 1970s.

The Paris Métro still has MP59 trains in service on line 11. These are
rubber-tyred trains delivered from 1963 to 1973. MF67 trains are indeed
still in use, on lines 3, 10, 12 and possibly a few on line 9.

I'm surprised given the advances in railway technology over the last 50 years
that the french still soldier on with rubber tyred metros given their
inefficiency and maintenance costs. All the rubber tyred lines have normal
tracks too for maintenance vehicles so it would be simple to introduce steel
wheeled stock then removed the old guiderails.

--
Spud

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:52:59 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:25:56 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The Pyongyang Metro uses ex-West Berlin U-Bahn stock dating from
around 1960. It looked clean and in good nick when I travelled on it
in 2013:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57633424928749

I'm impressed you got away with taking those pictures without getting hauled
off for interrogation. Very ornate stations tho I don't think it'll ever be
on my to-visit list frankly.

Yes, those three stations are very ornate; others we passed through were
more utilitarian, like most things in North Korea. With a couple of
exceptions, photography wasn't restricted in the areas tourists can visit.
The bits they really don't want you to photograph aren't open to visit at
all.

Just out of interest, whats this?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7633470265514/

Looks like some sort of cremation memorial but it got loads of different
languages. Is this where old western stalinists come to be cremated these
days?

--
Spud

wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 23:52:59 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 15:25:56 +0100
Recliner wrote:
The Pyongyang Metro uses ex-West Berlin U-Bahn stock dating from
around 1960. It looked clean and in good nick when I travelled on it
in 2013:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57633424928749

I'm impressed you got away with taking those pictures without getting hauled
off for interrogation. Very ornate stations tho I don't think it'll ever be
on my to-visit list frankly.

Yes, those three stations are very ornate; others we passed through were
more utilitarian, like most things in North Korea. With a couple of
exceptions, photography wasn't restricted in the areas tourists can visit.
The bits they really don't want you to photograph aren't open to visit at
all.

Just out of interest, whats this?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...7633470265514/

Looks like some sort of cremation memorial but it got loads of different
languages. Is this where old western stalinists come to be cremated these
days?

It's the foyer in the base of the Juche Tower, which celebrates the DPRK's
ideology, a weird sort of communism crossed with religion (ie, worship of
the Kims). Those plaques are from foreign supporters of it (mostly extreme
leftwing nutjobs, like our friend Hils). I took this picture of the tower
from across the river, from the balcony that the regime's leaders use to
inspect the grand parades through Kim Il-sung Squa

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8729042313/in/album-72157633470265514/

The tower is claimed to be the world's tallest free-standing stone tower,
and it's deliberately slightly taller than the Washington Monument.
Pyongyang also has an Arc de Triomphe bigger than the Paris one, and a
fountain bigger than the Geneva one (when they have enough electrical power
for the pumps, which is seldom):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8727878551/in/album-72157633470265514/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/8735159420/in/album-72157633470265514/