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Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Clank remarked: Roland Perry Wrote in message: That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role. Only, for some reason, rare in the UK. The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite limited. But if what you want to do is service two SIMs that you'd have anyway, on one bit of hardware, then the opportunities open up a bit. Even on locked phone because (for example) GiffGaff and Tesco both use O2, and Virgin/Orange/T-Mobile all share EE. Yes, some of those brands are a bit long in the tooth, but I've managed to acquire non-contract SIMs for all of them (although the Orange one expired recently, probably because I'd not used it enough). To the extent that in the past at least the same model phone has been dual SIM as standard on worldwide sale but single-SIM on the UK SKU. Same headline model, but a different part number. I just checked on orange.ro, and in their current catalogue they have 122 dual SIM phones, and only 71 single SIM - to add some hard facts to my anecdata. (It must be around a decade since I owned a single-SIM phone, but when I was in the UK it was a feature I had to search for, now it's more or less standard. Except for Apple of course, but then that's why I switched away from iPhone in the first place... I think they can finally do dual-SIM now provided your carrier supports e-SIM for one of them, though.) It's easier to switch SIMs on an iPhone than many others, so it's possibility for those occasions when one finds a holiday let that doesn't have coverage. But obviously no good for being able to operate to on-the-fly. One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground In other news, Crossrail will have wifi and 4G when it opens in December 2018. [when ?? - ed] -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect automatically, but seldom does. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:42:38 +0100
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Clank remarked: Roland Perry Wrote in message: That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role. Only, for some reason, rare in the UK. The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite limited. Of course back when 2G phones first came out the SIM was on a card you could switch cards easily in seconds but presumably that was deemed too convenient for users whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the battery and messing about trying to get some sum postage sized thing into a tiny slot at an awkward angle. And now with ever shrinking SIM sizes they're almost impossible to change without tweezers. Yes, some of those brands are a bit long in the tooth, but I've managed to acquire non-contract SIMs for all of them (although the Orange one expired recently, probably because I'd not used it enough). Since when has buying PAYG SIMs for most networks ever been a problem? You talk as if they're a rarity. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
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Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 08:21:37 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect automatically, but seldom does. I think you need the Virgin "wifi-buddy" app running on the phone, but it's a long time since I tried connecting. Hoho, it's now called "Virgin Media Connect", and is one of those Marmite apps with a predominance of 5* and 1* ratings. It's entirely possible the 1* ratings are because of some fundamental incompatibility issues, rather than fat-fingered users. Needs Android 5, apparently, which is why it's not on my phone any more. Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
wrote in message ... On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:42:38 +0100 Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Clank remarked: Roland Perry Wrote in message: That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role. Only, for some reason, rare in the UK. The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite limited. Of course back when 2G phones first came out the SIM was on a card you could switch cards easily in seconds but presumably that was deemed too convenient for users it mitigated against the demand for ever smaller phones, but I'm sure you knew that really. Engineers didn't like creating designs for these ever smaller SIMs. It was a real PITA. But it was what Marketing wanted whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the battery IIRC for the the phone that I had that took a full credit card size SIM you still had to fit it in under the battery tim |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 08:21:37 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect automatically, but seldom does. I think you need the Virgin "wifi-buddy" app running on the phone, but it's a long time since I tried connecting. Hoho, it's now called "Virgin Media Connect", and is one of those Marmite apps with a predominance of 5* and 1* ratings. It's entirely possible the 1* ratings are because of some fundamental incompatibility issues, rather than fat-fingered users. I do have the app, but it still doesn't work properly. I might not be using it correctly, of course, but I'm sure it (or the predecessor app) did work. I don't really have much need for it, as I'm not usually waiting long enough in deep Tube stations to be able to use it. And I don't know of a way of sending and receiving texts via station WiFi. Needs Android 5, apparently, which is why it's not on my phone any more. I'm on Android 9. Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. My Android 9 phone is dual sim. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... Then there's a few phones which need a "5v" SIM, and don't work with a 3v one. Those SIMs are getting harder to find (some say that it's only Pound-shop Orange SIMs these days, Thinks why would someone pay even as much as a pound for a SIM? tim |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 11:09:30 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked: I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM. Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use it in. But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone (and contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised being used with a SIM from a rival network, They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked My "acquired" smart phone still is Is still what. Locked? That's hardly unusual. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 11:11:38 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked: Then there's a few phones which need a "5v" SIM, and don't work with a 3v one. Those SIMs are getting harder to find (some say that it's only Pound-shop Orange SIMs these days, Thinks why would someone pay even as much as a pound for a SIM? Because that's what the shops charge, and stealing them is a crime. I've paid as little as 1P for a SIM in Tesco, and both I and the checkout assistant were surprised (the shelf was marked 99p) But they've been trained to believe what the till tells them. That came with some free data for the first month, so not merely a bit of plastic needing topping up. Sainsbury's Mobile used to have some offers (their project flopped and they did desperate stuff to try to kick start it). One of which was to give people who bought a phone there, a voucher for a £10 top-up. But the till regarded a £10 SIM [with one month's credit pre-installed] as a 'phone', so they were effectively free. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 08:21:37 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect automatically, but seldom does. I think you need the Virgin "wifi-buddy" app running on the phone, but it's a long time since I tried connecting. Hoho, it's now called "Virgin Media Connect", and is one of those Marmite apps with a predominance of 5* and 1* ratings. It's entirely possible the 1* ratings are because of some fundamental incompatibility issues, rather than fat-fingered users. I do have the app, but it still doesn't work properly. I might not be using it correctly, of course, but I'm sure it (or the predecessor app) did work. I don't really have much need for it, as I'm not usually waiting long enough in deep Tube stations to be able to use it. And I don't know of a way of sending and receiving texts via station WiFi. You'd need a phone and account which had "wifi calling", which might not exist in a combination useful to you. Needs Android 5, apparently, which is why it's not on my phone any more. I'm on Android 9. Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. My Android 9 phone is dual sim. Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby. If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero. Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I probably wouldn't need an SD card). -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 11:11:38 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, tim... remarked: Then there's a few phones which need a "5v" SIM, and don't work with a 3v one. Those SIMs are getting harder to find (some say that it's only Pound-shop Orange SIMs these days, Thinks why would someone pay even as much as a pound for a SIM? Because that's what the shops charge, Is it. Higher than I have seen, 50p earlier this week (forget where) and stealing them is a crime. Yes, very funny I've paid as little as 1P for a SIM in Tesco, and both I and the checkout assistant were surprised (the shelf was marked 99p) My last one was sent to me for free But they've been trained to believe what the till tells them. That came with some free data for the first month, so not merely a bit of plastic needing topping up. I think my free one came with some credit. AIH that was worthless to me as I only need it to convert a full sized SIM into a nano SIM. Sainsbury's Mobile used to have some offers (their project flopped and they did desperate stuff to try to kick start it). They didn't do anything differently to others trying to enter the market their problem was they came to the market too late tim |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 11:09:30 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, tim... remarked: I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM. Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use it in. But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone (and contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised being used with a SIM from a rival network, They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked My "acquired" smart phone still is Is still what. Locked? That's hardly unusual. I know but you seemed not to understand it as the solution to people "sharing" phones by swapping SIMs in/out -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
"Clank" wrote in message ... "tim..." Wrote in message: Engineers didn't like creating designs for these ever smaller SIMs. It was a real PITA. But it was what Marketing wanted Nonsense! We wanted to create smaller, better, cooler handsets just as much as "marketing" - and the ridiculous credit-card sized SIM was a major barrier to that. well yes but I was referring to the move from standard to micro to nano SIMs whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the IIRC for the the phone that I had that took a full credit card size SIM you still had to fit it in under the battery Indeed, and this was always a feature rather than a bug - it meant we could confidently design the software stack to assume the SIM it booted up with would never change (for as long as it was running.) This mattered when you were coding for a 68k derivative with memory measured in peanuts, and every byte counted... I don't recall working on "terminals" where memory was measured in peanuts we had enough of it. The problem was it wasn't very developer "friendly". we still worked with PROMs and had to physically reprogram them each time we changed the code. tim |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 14:31:13 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 11:09:30 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, tim... remarked: I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM. Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone (and contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised being used with a SIM from a rival network, They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked My "acquired" smart phone still is Is still what. Locked? That's hardly unusual. I know but you seemed not to understand it as the solution to people "sharing" phones by swapping SIMs in/out Do keep up: "[Opportunities open up] Even on a locked phone because (for example) GiffGaff and Tesco both use O2, and Virgin/Orange/T-Mobile all share EE." -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 15:03:06 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, tim... remarked: Nonsense! We wanted to create smaller, better, cooler handsets just as much as "marketing" - and the ridiculous credit-card sized SIM was a major barrier to that. well yes but I was referring to the move from standard to micro to nano SIMs I wondered if you were, despite you replying in a subthread about the CC-sized SIMs. we still worked with PROMs and had to physically reprogram them each time we changed the code. Wow! Even back in the mid 80's we'd advanced to electrically re-programming them, where I worked. Cutting those little links on the PROM chip must have been really hard work for you. In case you think I'm being facetious, I have seen ULA chips where a small amount of [re]programming was done with a micro-scalpel. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
"tim..." Wrote in message:
Engineers didn't like creating designs for these ever smaller SIMs. It was a real PITA. But it was what Marketing wanted Nonsense! We wanted to create smaller, better, cooler handsets just as much as "marketing" - and the ridiculous credit-card sized SIM was a major barrier to that. whereupon inserting the SIM was changed to require removing the IIRC for the the phone that I had that took a full credit card size SIM you still had to fit it in under the battery Indeed, and this was always a feature rather than a bug - it meant we could confidently design the software stack to assume the SIM it booted up with would never change (for as long as it was running.) This mattered when you were coding for a 68k derivative with memory measured in peanuts, and every byte counted... -- |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
"tim..." Wrote in message:
counted...I don't recall working on "terminals" where memory was measured in peanuts we had enough of it. Ahh, POCSAG+ and 8051 microcontrollers with 256 bytes of RAM, how I miss thee; and yes, while the GSM days were better - much less incredibly ugly reusing-the-same-buffer-a-dozen -times-in-different-places, we even had something approximating malloc/free - wasting good memory on being able to handle a completely unnecessary feature like changing SIM with the power on would mean memory not going on something useful. I wrote the first WAP/WML browser outside the original Unwired Planet reference implementation (it was still called HDML at the time, in fact), and fighting against memory constraints was a constant battle... The problem was it wasn't very developer "friendly". we still worked with PROMs and had to physically reprogram them each time we changed the code. We could at least afford EEPROMs and In-Circuit Emulators. But they were horrendously unreliable pieces of kit (not least the flimsy ribbon cables that connected the ICE to where the chip would have been) that stopped working if someone in the next room sneezed, so one of my first gigs was building a test framework that massively improved development productivity. I didn't emulate the CPU, so native assembly couldn't be tested in it - fortunately there wasn't much of that about even then - but built a set of libraries that would allow the entire phone to be recompiled and run on a Sun Sparc workstation, with all the hardware devices simulated by mocks. As I recall - and it is 25-odd years ago - I had fun getting even the DMA-accessed peripherals to emulate right, with no code changes to the phone source, even if it was bit-banging them - using Sys-V shared memory segments... (Interrupts were emulated using Unix signals...) Writing the mock instances of things like the LCD controller chip (which I rendered to the workstation screen using X) bug-for-bug compatible with the hardware ones was genuinely great fun... Gloriously happy days. -- |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
"Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 15:03:06 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, tim... remarked: Nonsense! We wanted to create smaller, better, cooler handsets just as much as "marketing" - and the ridiculous credit-card sized SIM was a major barrier to that. well yes but I was referring to the move from standard to micro to nano SIMs I wondered if you were, despite you replying in a subthread about the CC-sized SIMs. we still worked with PROMs and had to physically reprogram them each time we changed the code. Wow! Even back in the mid 80's we'd advanced to electrically re-programming them, where I worked. Cutting those little links on the PROM chip must have been really hard work for you. you know that I didn't mean that I meant that we had to take them off the board to reprogram them none of this downloading into in situ flash, lark tim |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
"Clank" wrote in message ... "tim..." Wrote in message: counted...I don't recall working on "terminals" where memory was measured in peanuts we had enough of it. Ahh, POCSAG+ and 8051 microcontrollers with 256 bytes of RAM, how well of course such devices were still available and if you worked on a "cheap" or simple consumer product they would still be used but no-one used these for mobile (or cordless) phones tim |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 08:21:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect automatically, but seldom does. Maybe due to the 'phone rather than the hot spot ? Of two 'phones which I use, one needs to log on to LU/Virgin and The Cloud at stations the first time it is used there each day while the other seems to do so automatically. IIRC there is a setting in the murkier depths of the WiFi setup which only exists on one of them. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 15:04:28 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 14:31:13 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, tim... remarked: "Roland Perry" wrote in message ... In message , at 11:09:30 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, tim... remarked: I'm not sure how many phones ever took the full size SIM. Commercial considerations killed them off: the idea was that a person would have a SIM, and be able to share/borrow a phone to use But the networks wanted to tie people into having their own phone (and contract) in particular not wanting a phone they'd subsidised being used with a SIM from a rival network, They solved that problem by having phones "network" locked My "acquired" smart phone still is Is still what. Locked? That's hardly unusual. I know but you seemed not to understand it as the solution to people "sharing" phones by swapping SIMs in/out Do keep up: "[Opportunities open up] Even on a locked phone because (for example) GiffGaff and Tesco both use O2, and Virgin/Orange/T-Mobile all share EE." O2 locking also seems to die eventually by around 18-24 months but it might depend on whether or not a 'phone was originally purchased outright. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 08:21:37 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul One of the reasons for having a Virgin second-SIM is it authenticates Virgin wifi (for those also not on Virgin Cable) on the phone. https://www.virginmedia.com/help/vir...ect-to-london- underground I'm on Virgin Mobile, partly for that reason, and find that it generally fails to connect to the LU hot spots. It's supposed to connect automatically, but seldom does. Maybe due to the 'phone rather than the hot spot ? Of two 'phones which I use, one needs to log on to LU/Virgin and The Cloud at stations the first time it is used there each day while the other seems to do so automatically. IIRC there is a setting in the murkier depths of the WiFi setup which only exists on one of them. I've probably not investigated enough. I just don't spend long enough waiting in deep Tube stations to have much use or need for the capability. Above ground, I just use 4G data. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. My Android 9 phone is dual sim. Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby. If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero. Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I probably wouldn't need an SD card). Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though, which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to this when I need to replace my current phone). Mark |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. My Android 9 phone is dual sim. Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby. If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero. Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I probably wouldn't need an SD card). Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though, which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to this when I need to replace my current phone). I don't think those phones have field replaceable batteries in the sense that Roland meant? Few modern phones do. I prefer the rear fingerprint sensor. It works well, without stealing screen space. It's just very natural to pick up the phone with your index finger on the sensor. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was coveringfor brother
On 14/07/2019 10:35, tim... wrote:
IIRC for the the phone that I had that took a full credit card size SIM you still had to fit it in under the battery I still have my old Orange mr30 that took a full size SIM. It still worked the last time that I tried it, but the battery is now dead beyond all possibility of resurrection :-( Going back to dual SIM, whatever happened to the Orange system of two numbers (Line 2) on a single SIM..? I had it for a while back in the day, but ISTR Orange killed it off, I don't recall any other UK network ever using it..? -- Ria in Aberdeen [Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct] |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:42:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Mark Goodge wrote: On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. My Android 9 phone is dual sim. Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby. If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero. Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I probably wouldn't need an SD card). Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though, which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to this when I need to replace my current phone). I don't think those phones have field replaceable batteries in the sense that Roland meant? Few modern phones do. Yes, they do. Mine certainly does, anyway, and looking at the spec (and a bit of additional Googling) for the newer one suggests it does, too. You do have to take the rear case off to access the battery, so it's not as simple as just shoving it into a slot or clipping it on like you used to do with the pre-smartphone bricks. But the case just clips on and can be removed with your fingernails if they're robust enough (and with a small piece of plastic or a small screwdriver if they're not). More generally, Moto appears to have deliberately chosen to target this kind of use case. I came across them when I asked a similar question to Roland's in another place, and was given Moto as a recommendation. All of their phones have simple, clip-on cases that are easily removed to reveal a plug-in replaceable battery (no screws or other tools needed), and the dual-sim versions are not only active dual-sim but also have the SD slot separately to the sim slots (so you don't have to choose between a second sim and an SD card, unlike some phones). Their version of Android is also pretty close to vanilla, again unlike the heavily customised version found in phones from some other popular suppliers. The downside is that, for a mid-priced phone, they're not usually the top performers when it comes to camera quality, processor power, etc. So if that sort of thing matters, you can often find better value for money elsewhere. But they're perfectly good enough for most purposes unless you do want to push the envelope. And I find the flexibility (particularly the active dual-sim, which is the reason I bought one in the first place) more than outweighs the fact that the camera doesn't come with bragging rights on Instagram. I prefer the rear fingerprint sensor. It works well, without stealing screen space. It's just very natural to pick up the phone with your index finger on the sensor. I suppose it's worth trying. It's just that I'm used to it being where it is on my curent phone. Mark |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:42:58 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Mark Goodge wrote: On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 12:01:55 +0100, Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 09:55:16 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Roland Perry wrote: Oh, the irony; the reason I bought and am sticking with that phone (dual-SIM) is the very reason I can't use the second SIM slot for this. My Android 9 phone is dual sim. Active, standby or hybrid? Maybe the Virgin trick doesn't work on a standby basis, and all the hybrid I've seen today are also standby. If I add in my requirement for a replaceable battery, 32GB, active dual-SIM, I think that narrows the field to zero. Accepting a hybrid dual-SIM doesn't help, unfortunately (with 32GB, I probably wouldn't need an SD card). Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though, which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to this when I need to replace my current phone). I don't think those phones have field replaceable batteries in the sense that Roland meant? Few modern phones do. Yes, they do. Mine certainly does, anyway, and looking at the spec (and a bit of additional Googling) for the newer one suggests it does, too. You do have to take the rear case off to access the battery, so it's not as simple as just shoving it into a slot or clipping it on like you used to do with the pre-smartphone bricks. But the case just clips on and can be removed with your fingernails if they're robust enough (and with a small piece of plastic or a small screwdriver if they're not). More generally, Moto appears to have deliberately chosen to target this kind of use case. I came across them when I asked a similar question to Roland's in another place, and was given Moto as a recommendation. All of their phones have simple, clip-on cases that are easily removed to reveal a plug-in replaceable battery (no screws or other tools needed), and the dual-sim versions are not only active dual-sim but also have the SD slot separately to the sim slots (so you don't have to choose between a second sim and an SD card, unlike some phones). Their version of Android is also pretty close to vanilla, again unlike the heavily customised version found in phones from some other popular suppliers. The downside is that, for a mid-priced phone, they're not usually the top performers when it comes to camera quality, processor power, etc. So if that sort of thing matters, you can often find better value for money elsewhere. But they're perfectly good enough for most purposes unless you do want to push the envelope. And I find the flexibility (particularly the active dual-sim, which is the reason I bought one in the first place) more than outweighs the fact that the camera doesn't come with bragging rights on Instagram. Yes, I also have a Moto phone, and it's a good all-rounder, but it had never occurred to me to try and open the case, with its camera and fingerprint sensor. And, indeed, it's not user-replaceable: http://motorola-global-en-roe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/126930/~/can-i-replace-the-battery-in-my-moto-g6-play%3F https://support.motorola.com/uk/en/products/cell-phones/moto-g-family/moto-g6-play/documents/MS126899 The same seems to be true of the G7 range. Maybe only the older (up to G5) Moto models have user-replaceable batteries? http://motorola-global-en-roe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/135919/~/can-i-replace-the-battery-in-my-moto-g7%3F The camera in my phone is quite basic, but I don't care as I seldom use it. I'm normally carrying a much better 'proper' camera. I prefer the rear fingerprint sensor. It works well, without stealing screen space. It's just very natural to pick up the phone with your index finger on the sensor. I suppose it's worth trying. It's just that I'm used to it being where it is on my curent phone. It soon becomes natural, and the bigger screen is welcome. It's the same with my new iPad Pro: I was dubious about facial recognition rather than the touch ID built into the now-gone Home button, but I soon adapted to it. I now welcome the larger screen instead. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 12:29:56 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Clank remarked: Roland Perry Wrote in message: That's where the albeit fairly rare dual-SIM phone has a role. Only, for some reason, rare in the UK. The reason is obvious: so many phones are either SIM-locked to one provider, or are fitted with SIMs on non-rollover tariffs, that the opportunities for fitting a second true-Pay-as-you-go SIM are quite limited. I was quite surprised to find the DORO 2404 granny phone that was sold in LIDl last year for £24.99 was dual Sim. As sold the purchaser was steered to Vodafone as it came with VF PAY as you go SIM in the package , but my own 3 SIM in the other slot worked fine which is understandable as having a dual SIM linked to one provider would pointless in most circumstances. GH |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 21:45:53 on Sun, 14
Jul 2019, MissRiaElaine remarked: Going back to dual SIM, whatever happened to the Orange system of two numbers (Line 2) on a single SIM..? I had it for a while back in the day, but ISTR Orange killed it off, I don't recall any other UK network ever using it..? Orange had several innovative features, because it was really a product aimed at SMEs, to use as a combined cordless PABX at the office, and mobile when in the field. But with changes in marketing perspective (and of course network ownership), most of them rotted away. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 21:55:14 on Sun, 14 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked: I also have a Moto phone, and it's a good all-rounder, but it had never occurred to me to try and open the case, with its camera and fingerprint sensor. And, indeed, it's not user-replaceable: http://motorola-global-en-roe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/126930/~/can-i-replace-the-battery-in-my-moto-g6-play%3F https://support.motorola.com/uk/en/products/cell-phones/moto-g-family/moto-g6-play/documents/MS126899 Oddly enough, the most recent addition to our collection of phones here is also a G6 play (single SIM). But it's not mine to use. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 00:43:12 on Mon, 15
Jul 2019, Marland remarked: I was quite surprised to find the DORO 2404 granny phone that was sold in LIDl last year for £24.99 was dual Sim. Same with the unlocked Aldi "Workzone" ruggedised candy-bar. The one I have is 3G, and the battery life is at least two weeks. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 21:55:14 on Sun, 14 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: I also have a Moto phone, and it's a good all-rounder, but it had never occurred to me to try and open the case, with its camera and fingerprint sensor. And, indeed, it's not user-replaceable: http://motorola-global-en-roe.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/126930/~/can-i-replace-the-battery-in-my-moto-g6-play%3F https://support.motorola.com/uk/en/products/cell-phones/moto-g-family/moto-g6-play/documents/MS126899 Oddly enough, the most recent addition to our collection of phones here is also a G6 play (single SIM). But it's not mine to use. You can get a newer Moto at a good price today (Amazon Prime day). |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 07:52:58 on Mon, 15 Jul
2019, Recliner remarked: Oddly enough, the most recent addition to our collection of phones here is also a G6 play (single SIM). But it's not mine to use. You can get a newer Moto at a good price today (Amazon Prime day). The G6 play is less than year old, and no-one has managed to turn it into landfill yet. So we'll not be needing to replace it. -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 07:52:58 on Mon, 15 Jul 2019, Recliner remarked: Oddly enough, the most recent addition to our collection of phones here is also a G6 play (single SIM). But it's not mine to use. You can get a newer Moto at a good price today (Amazon Prime day). The G6 play is less than year old, and no-one has managed to turn it into landfill yet. So we'll not be needing to replace it. I wasn't suggesting prematurely replacing the G6, but allowing *you* access to a non-vintage phone. |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was coveringfor brother
On 15/07/2019 01:43, Marland wrote:
I was quite surprised to find the DORO 2404 granny phone that was sold in LIDl last year for £24.99 was dual Sim. As sold the purchaser was steered to Vodafone as it came with VF PAY as you go SIM in the package , but my own 3 SIM in the other slot worked fine which is understandable as having a dual SIM linked to one provider would pointless in most circumstances. Not if you have a both a personal and a business number. It would be similar to Orange's "Line 2" offering back in the day, which I found quite useful. I was rather sad when they got rid of it. No other UK network ever used it, as far as I know. -- Ria in Aberdeen [Send address is invalid, use sipsoup at gmail dot com to reply direct] |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train wascovering for brother
The MissRiaElaine wrote:
On 15/07/2019 01:43, Marland wrote: I was quite surprised to find the DORO 2404 granny phone that was sold in LIDl last year for £24.99 was dual Sim. As sold the purchaser was steered to Vodafone as it came with VF PAY as you go SIM in the package , but my own 3 SIM in the other slot worked fine which is understandable as having a dual SIM linked to one provider would pointless in most circumstances. Not if you have a both a personal and a business number. It would be similar to Orange's "Line 2" offering back in the day, which I found quite useful. I was rather sad when they got rid of it. No other UK network ever used it, as far as I know. Which is why I included the words “most circumstances “ rather than stopping at “pointless.†Another example would be a phone shared between two family members who wish to share a phone but have their own contact number and list of contacts for when they left home. But that now basic cellphones are so cheap compared to 20 years ago the convenience of having one each available all the time has diminished that method of use. My use of dual sims was with a work issued Nokia 6310i , I think it used an adapter that clipped between the phone and battery but it was so long ago I cannot remember for sure. The firm wasn’t too bad about allowing limited and reasonable personal use such as phoning home if delayed or even order a pizza to be collected on the way back, but I preferred the freedom of being able to use my own resources without restriction. There were also concerns that too much free private use of a works phone would attract the attention of the revenue men and be taxed as benefit in kind. My SIM was from Virgin on some sort of pay as you go / contract hybrid that I cannot remember the name of but I think Roland Perry has mentioned in the past. The phone that came with it was actually more featured than the 6310 in that it had a camera and colour screen and used the Symbian OS for features making it vaguely intelligent rather than smart. Using its SIM in the 6310 saved on the pocket clutter by not having to carry two phones or more usefully the installed hands free car kit which was tailored for the Nokia 6310 via a hard wired cradle could be used for my personal number. Now days the advent of blue tooth means using multiple phones on the same in car hands free equipment has also made the requirement to do that obsolete . GH |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
In message , at 13:27:51 on Mon, 15
Jul 2019, Marland remarked: My SIM was from Virgin on some sort of pay as you go / contract hybrid that I cannot remember the name of but I think Roland Perry has mentioned in the past. iirc they call that "pay monthly". It's a bit like a post-payment PAYG account, with no ongoing commitment such as you'd have with a classic contract. My only remaining Virgin SIM is classic pre-pay PAYG, and I think one of the disadvantages of that was the roaming charges were very high, whereas the "Pay Monthly" roaming was cheaper than most contract phones, at least to begin with back in the day. Because of my lifestyle at the time, the majority of my mobile calls were made while I was abroad. (When in the UK, I had landlines at home and in the office, and the railway commute was largely a long thin not-spot). -- Roland Perry |
Dual SIM phones was:Worker killed by Southern train was covering for brother
Mark Goodge wrote:
Moto dual-sim phones are active dual-sim, and have replaceable batteries. I have this one, and it has all of the features you mention except 32GB built in (but it has an SD card slot which provides me with that): https://amzn.to/2jQA12b Looking at more recent models, I think this one would tick all the boxes: https://amzn.to/30vN60j (It has a notched display, though, which really irritates me, and has moved the fingerprint sensor to the back, which I'm also not keen on, so I suspect I won't be upgrading to this when I need to replace my current phone). The current OnePlus lineup is dual active SIM. The 7 Plus does not have a notch and uses the screen for fingerprint sensing. |
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