In message , Brian Watson
writes

As there would be no terminus there would be nowhere for the trains to
make
up any time and this would decrease reliability.

So how does this work now at the Heathrow end of the Picc or, come to that,
on the Circle line?

Heathrow 123 is regarded as the terminus. Trains are booked for about a
7-8 minute stand there.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

Would it be totally impractical for all or most Met journeys to/from
Chesham
to run as through services to Baker Street as opposed to mainly a branch
shuttle with the odd peak-time run to Aldgate or wherever. Just seems a
bit
messy compared to most other lines which tend to provide through services
to
all their extremities.

It would be possible but I doubt enough people use Chesham off-peak to make
it worthwhile.

But equally anyone from Amersham would surely use Chiltern. If anyone
used Chesham at all, a better off-peak pattern might be making the LU
Fast trains Cheshams.

Also would it not be feasible for Central Line trains serving Hainault to
run alternately clockwise/anticlockwise round the Hainault loop and back
towards the City?

As there would be no terminus there would be nowhere for the trains to make
up any time and this would decrease reliability.

What might be a better idea would be to make all trains via Newbury
Park terminate at Hainault and send a few trains an hour to Hainault
via Woodford. This might finally do something about the abysmal
ridership at Roding Valley.

Are there any changes to traditional route options on LU that might be
worth
doing even if the above two are hopeless non-starters?

I believe LU are considering changing the sub-surface lines. Trains would go
Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - South Kensington - Edgware
Road where it would reverse and head back the other way. This would have the
advantage of giving Circle trains somewhere to make up any time they have
lost.

This is a stupid idea. It would just end up sharing terminal platforms
with the Edgware Rd District, so the amount of recovery time available
would be necessarily tiny. The route would effectively become
Hammersmith to Hammersmith with a reversing move in the middle. On
time performance towards Hammersmith would be appalling, unless an
extra wait were added at Aldgate, which rather defeats the point of
the whole exercise.

A better plan might be to replace the Circle with a Wimbledon -
Wimbledon Loop, or alternatively to run Hammersmith - Aldgate -
Wimbledon and Wimbledon - Edgware Rd - Whitechapel.

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 29 May 2004, Sharon & Gordon Thomson wrote:

Are there any changes to traditional route options on LU that
might be worth doing even if the above two are hopeless
non-starters?

How about terminating the Metropolitan line at Whitechapel instead
of Aldgate?

Like the fact that, with only two tracks between Aldgate East and
Whitechapel, and a flat junction at Aldgate East, you couldn't fit in
the H&C, District and Met services and expect to get a reliable service.
This is one reason why the H&C is "seriously crappy", as it has to
contend with at least 4 flat junctions between Paddington and Aldgate
East.

Dang those flat junctions!

So, how did it work when the Met _did_ go to Whitechapel? Or am i
imagining that? Did (what is now) the H&C terminate at Aldgate or
something?

tom

--
Basically, at any given time, most people in the world are wasting time.

"Tom Anderson" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 May 2004, Richard J. wrote:

Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 29 May 2004, Sharon & Gordon Thomson wrote:

Are there any changes to traditional route options on LU that
might be worth doing even if the above two are hopeless
non-starters?

How about terminating the Metropolitan line at Whitechapel instead
of Aldgate?

Like the fact that, with only two tracks between Aldgate East and
Whitechapel, and a flat junction at Aldgate East, you couldn't fit in
the H&C, District and Met services and expect to get a reliable service.
This is one reason why the H&C is "seriously crappy", as it has to
contend with at least 4 flat junctions between Paddington and Aldgate
East.

Dang those flat junctions!

So, how did it work when the Met _did_ go to Whitechapel? Or am i
imagining that? Did (what is now) the H&C terminate at Aldgate or
something?

The only time the Metropolitan line went to Whitechapel was when the
Hammersmith & City was still part of the Met. Even then it was still the
Hammersmith trains that went to Whitechapel.

Peter Smyth

"James" wrote in message
om...

I believe LU are considering changing the sub-surface lines. Trains
would go
Hammersmith - Edgware Road - Liverpool Street - South Kensington -
Edgware
Road where it would reverse and head back the other way. This would have
the
advantage of giving Circle trains somewhere to make up any time they
have
lost.

This is a stupid idea. It would just end up sharing terminal platforms
with the Edgware Rd District, so the amount of recovery time available
would be necessarily tiny. The route would effectively become
Hammersmith to Hammersmith with a reversing move in the middle. On
time performance towards Hammersmith would be appalling, unless an
extra wait were added at Aldgate, which rather defeats the point of
the whole exercise.

A better plan might be to replace the Circle with a Wimbledon -
Wimbledon Loop, or alternatively to run Hammersmith - Aldgate -
Wimbledon and Wimbledon - Edgware Rd - Whitechapel.

The version I've heard - admittedly only within this group - was that the
Circle, H&C and Wimbleware lines would be replaced by two services:

1) Wimbledon-Earl's Court-Edgware Road-Liverpool Street-Barking
2) Hammersmith-Edgware Road-Liverpool Steet-Victoria-Edgware Road

Jonn

A better plan might be to replace the Circle with a Wimbledon -
Wimbledon Loop, or alternatively to run Hammersmith - Aldgate -
Wimbledon and Wimbledon - Edgware Rd - Whitechapel.

The version I've heard - admittedly only within this group - was that the
Circle, H&C and Wimbleware lines would be replaced by two services:

1) Wimbledon-Earl's Court-Edgware Road-Liverpool Street-Barking
2) Hammersmith-Edgware Road-Liverpool Steet-Victoria-Edgware Road

Jonn

Have a look he

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/SS...%20Upgrade.htm

I think this is as close to the horse's mouth as we are likely to get!

In article ,
(dan) wrote:

A better plan might be to replace the Circle with a Wimbledon -
Wimbledon Loop, or alternatively to run Hammersmith - Aldgate -
Wimbledon and Wimbledon - Edgware Rd - Whitechapel.

The version I've heard - admittedly only within this group - was that
the Circle, H&C and Wimbleware lines would be replaced by two
services:

1) Wimbledon-Earl's Court-Edgware Road-Liverpool Street-Barking
2) Hammersmith-Edgware Road-Liverpool Steet-Victoria-Edgware Road

Jonn

Have a look he

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/SS...%20Upgrade.htm

I think this is as close to the horse's mouth as we are likely to get!

Sorry to come along rather late but where does the handing over of the
District's Richmond branch to Crossrail come into this?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:
In article ,
(dan) wrote:
Have a look he

http://www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/SS...%20Upgrade.htm

I think this is as close to the horse's mouth as we are likely to
get!

Sorry to come along rather late but where does the handing over of
the District's Richmond branch to Crossrail come into this?

The intention is that the Upminster to Richmond services will just be
shared out between Ealing Broadway and Wimbledon. Actually I think
that's Crossrail's proposal; I don't know if LU have expressed a view.

The rumour is that we shall find out on Tuesday (20 July) whether
Crossrail, or this bit of it, will actually happen.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)