In article ,
(Greg Hennessy) wrote:

Au contraire, speaking as both a cyclist and driver, I have lost
count of the idiots who do not appreciate the danger of pedaling up
the inside of *anything* which is turning left, never mind PSVs or
HGVs.

Who said anything about buses turning left in this? Where I find this
problem it's me as a cyclist turning left (to get away from the buses)
and the bus going straight on. I'm in the left hand lane as I should be
and the b* bus pulls in in front of me.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article . com,
(Neil Williams) wrote:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

In a wide main road like Euston Road, a bendi-bus pulls in
regardless of cyclists riding where they should, close to the kerb.

So long as it doesn't side-swipe them in doing so, I fail to see the
problem. Buses stop in bus stops. This is to be expected, and it
doesn't do any harm for other road users to assist them in doing so.

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop. They
should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but they don't.

They are then almost impossible to pass safely.

It is impossible to pass a stopped or left-turning bus (of any type)
safely on the left. There is always a significant chance of it
disgorging passengers or turning onto you. The right is the correct
place to pass, if appropriate. If the driver pulls out onto you while
doing that, he is an idiot.

If you try to pass on the right the bus pulls out into you. Most
cyclists don't have time to pass 18m of bus while it's stopped.

The sign on the bus is only reinforcing that point.

In which case why only on the 73 and some 29s? The routes are not even
run by the same company.

I suggest you try it sometime instead of pontificating.

I have done on a few occasions, and (while it didn't involve bendies)
spent a few years regularly cycling on Oxford Road in Manchester,
which has rather more buses than the Euston Road. I was only knocked
into once by a bus that pulled in a bit soon in that time; he was duly
informed of his error.

My preference is not to use that bit of Euston Road at all, as I don't
need to in the other direction. But that involves a walk under Camden
Town Hall.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop. They
should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but they don't.

Depends what you mean by "carves up". If the cyclist has to emergency
brake, sure. If you mean they continue a committed overtake then pull
in after the bell was pressed, I don't have a problem with it. Would
you otherwise propose that a bus (which can typically travel at up to
30mph in a city) should always follow behind cyclists (most of whom are
travelling at a much slower speed) and never overtake? If so you are
being unrealistic.

If you try to pass on the right the bus pulls out into you. Most
cyclists don't have time to pass 18m of bus while it's stopped.

Then the bus driver - that specific one - is incompetent. He should
not start to pull out until it is clear to do so.

In which case why only on the 73 and some 29s? The routes are not even
run by the same company.

No idea.

Neil

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Greg Hennessy) wrote:

Au contraire, speaking as both a cyclist and driver, I have lost
count of the idiots who do not appreciate the danger of pedaling up
the inside of *anything* which is turning left, never mind PSVs or
HGVs.

Who said anything about buses turning left in this? Where I find this
problem it's me as a cyclist turning left (to get away from the buses)
and the bus going straight on. I'm in the left hand lane as I should be
and the b* bus pulls in in front of me.

The bus drivers must have not got the "Get the **** out of Colin
Rosenstiel's way as he's allowed to go wherever he wants, whenever he wants,
and may God have mercy on the souls of anyone who even DARES thinking he
might be wrong" memo...

seriously, what's wrong with a bus using the left-hand-lane when a cyclist
is somewhere in the area?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 12:58 +0100 (BST), (Colin
Rosenstiel) wrote:

In article ,
(Greg Hennessy) wrote:

Au contraire, speaking as both a cyclist and driver, I have lost
count of the idiots who do not appreciate the danger of pedaling up
the inside of *anything* which is turning left, never mind PSVs or
HGVs.

Who said anything about buses turning left in this?

That would be the whole thread in question.

Where I find this
problem it's me as a cyclist turning left (to get away from the buses)
and the bus going straight on. I'm in the left hand lane as I should be
and the b* bus pulls in in front of me.

I have never had a PSV or HGV do that to me ever.


greg


--
Chuck Norris and Mr.T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly
destroyed,as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

Neil Williams wrote in message
:

Colin Rosenstiel wrote:

It carves cyclists up by pulling right in front of them to a stop.
They should of course let the cyclist pass the bus stop first but
they don't.

Depends what you mean by "carves up". If the cyclist has to emergency
brake, sure. If you mean they continue a committed overtake then pull
in after the bell was pressed, I don't have a problem with it. Would
you otherwise propose that a bus (which can typically travel at up to
30mph in a city) should always follow behind cyclists (most of whom
are travelling at a much slower speed) and never overtake? If so you
are being unrealistic.

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left hand
side of the road. Normally this is a sensible thing to do, but it becomes a
problem when the vehicle that is planning to turn left or to pull over to
the kerb to park (eg a bus at a bus stop) has to cross the cycle lane.
Normally, anyone planning to turn left would position themselves in the very
left-hand lane, but this option is not available where there is a cycle lane
(which powered vehicles are prohibited to use in normal cirumstances).

The solution is to discontinue the cycle lane (with an implied give way sign
where it ends) for X yards before any junction or bus stop, to give
left-turning traffic to move over to the left kerb.


If you try to pass on the right the bus pulls out into you. Most
cyclists don't have time to pass 18m of bus while it's stopped.

So as a cyclist (or a car driver) you have to judge whether there's going to
be enough time to complete your overtaking before the bus will be ready to
set off. If the bus has just stopped, you probably have time even on a
bicycle; if it's been stopped for a while, as you will have seen as you are
approaching it, then it's likely that it will want to set off so you should
maybe not start to overtake. 10 mph, a fairly slow speed for a bike, is
about 4.5 m/sec, so it will take about 4 seconds to overtake the bus. Buses
usually stop for a lot longer than this!

Then the bus driver - that specific one - is incompetent. He should
not start to pull out until it is clear to do so.

This isn't a problem that's confined to bicycles overtaking buses. I've had
problems in a car when overtaking a parked bus.

If the bus is stopped and indicating left, it's reasonable to assume that it
doesn't intend to set off in the next few seconds, and that it's safe to
overtake it, having checked that there's no oncoming traffic in advance (*).

If, as you are passing it, the driver decides that he's ready to set off, he
can indicate. This *should* mean "don't start to overtake, but if you're
already committed to overtaking, I'll wait for you to pull in front of me".
Sadly, a lot of bus drivers seem to think that indicating right means that
they can immediately pull out.

In general, if a vehicle is parked in a layby (as opposed to being in the
lane in front of me), I may let it pull out ahead of me, but itf it's a bus,
I will almost always do so - I thing there's a rule in the Highway Code
which says that you should let buses pull out.



(*) Many people pull right up behind buses, then try to overtake when
they've no way of seeing oncoming traffic! I've had one guy very nearly run
into the back of me because he wasn't expecting me to stop a couple of
car-lengths behind a bus where I still had a view of the oncoming traffic.

Colin Rosenstiel ) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

In a wide main road like Euston Road, a bendi-bus pulls in regardless of
cyclists riding where they should, close to the kerb.

If the bus is stopping immediately after passing a cyclist, then that's a
lack of planning on the driver's part - but it does NOT mean the cyclist
should go past the bus on the left.

If the bus is stationary when the cyclist reaches it, then that's even more
of a reason not to pass it on the left.

Oh, and cyclists shouldn't be riding "close to the kerb". Do a bit of
research on the primary riding position.

They are then almost impossible to pass safely.

Not at all. Go past on the right.

I suggest you try it sometime instead of pontificating.

Try going past a stationary vehicle on the left on a bike? No thanks, I
like life too much.

Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road.

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

"Adrian" wrote in message
. 244.170...
Martin Underwood (a@b) gurgled happily, sounding much like they were
saying :

The problem is modern road layouts which put the cyclist on the left
hand side of the road.

No, the problem is the excessive length of bendibuses.

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few seconds to
overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a regular bus. I
don't see how that's enough to reduce grown men to crying children.

d wrote:

No, it isn't. That has just been demonstrated. It takes a few seconds to
overtake a bendibus, which is about a second more than a regular bus. I
don't see how that's enough to reduce grown men to crying children.

They are also widely used in London, and have been in the UK since
being introduced to Manchester somewhere around 1999. Nothing new, and
not seemingly causing too many problems there.

If they are being driven improperly, that's a problem, but a full-size
non-articulated bus could be just as dangerous in such a situation.

Neil