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Old July 31st 06, 11:07 AM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Can I use Oyster pre pay before 9:30?

Just been reading the rules about Oyster pre pay and it says that there
is a price cap equal to (or less than ) the cost of a travel card. I
thought travel cards could only be used after 9:30?

....what happens if I use my Oyster prepay before 9:30, does this cap
still apply? Sounds like an loop hole for using a travel card before
9:30?

Does anyone know how much a zones 1-6 travel card costs these days?

I buy a yearly season ticket, but as I often work from home etc Ive
figured out that it would be cheaper to pay daily if a daily ticket
costs less that 10.


Thanks

David Bevan
http://www.davidbevan.co.uk


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Old July 31st 06, 02:18 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Can I use Oyster pre pay before 9:30?

Colin McKenzie wrote:

Is it not clever enough to cap at cost of peak single plus off-peak
travelcard, when appropriate?


No, I don't believe it is, nor is it clever enough to cap at a bus pass
plus a Tube single if that makes most sense.

Capping is nice, but it could really do with being on a rather
different model to the paper fares structure. The two designs of fare
system do not sit well together.

Neil

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Old July 31st 06, 04:48 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Can I use Oyster pre pay before 9:30?

Neil Williams wrote:

Colin McKenzie wrote:

Is it not clever enough to cap at cost of peak single plus off-peak
travelcard, when appropriate?


No, I don't believe it is, nor is it clever enough to cap at a bus pass
plus a Tube single if that makes most sense.


Wrong - it is clever enough to do both these things and I've
experienced it doing both.

See the top of page 20 of the TfL Fares Guide...

"You'll be charged separately for the journey(s) you make from 0430
and before 0930 (Mondays to Fridays), plus the Off-Peak cap, if the
total cost of the journeys you make is less than the Peak cap."

Direct link:
http://tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tickets/...06.pdf#page=11
(PDF format document)

Capping is nice, but it could really do with being on a rather
different model to the paper fares structure. The two designs of fare
system do not sit well together.


Can you alaborate on this thought a bit?

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Old July 31st 06, 05:35 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Can I use Oyster pre pay before 9:30?

On 31 Jul 2006 03:07:00 -0700, wrote:

Just been reading the rules about Oyster pre pay and it says that there
is a price cap equal to (or less than ) the cost of a travel card. I
thought travel cards could only be used after 9:30?


You can use Oyster before 09.30 on Pre-Pay. Note that all Oyster cards
have the ability to hold both Travelcard season tickets (7 day and
longer) and also a store of cash in the Pre-Pay part of the card. The
two can work in tandem if you travel beyond your travelcard validity
where Pre-Pay is valid. Your card will automatically auto-extend your
travelcard by deducting value from the pre-pay part of the card on exit.
This is why it is sensible to have some value in the Pre-Pay part of
your card if you normally have a Travelcard season.

With respect to daily capping there are three variables that will
trigger differing forms of cap being applied. The variables are

a) Where you travel - i.e. how many zones for rail. There are no
zones for buses.
b) What modes you use - only bus & tram or bus / tube / dlr / tram
/ interavailable NR services.
c) What time of day / day of the week you travel. Obviously peak
travelcard rates do not apply at weekends, after 09.30 M-F and on Bank
Holidays.

Please note that availability on National Rail services is very
restricted at present.

The caps are as follows :-

For bus use only - the One Day Bus Pass price less 50p = 3
For peak travel on all modes (as above) - the Peak One Day Travelcard
price less 50p
For off peak travel on all modes (as above) - the Off Peak One Day
Travelcard price less 50p

What Oyster will do is keep a running total of all your trips. If, for
example, you make two peak bus trips and then two off peak ones it will
go 1 + 1 + 80p + 80p = 3.60 but no I must cap at 3 so it it only
deducts 20p for the last of the 4 bus rides. If you only kept on using
buses for the rest of the day all subsequent trips would be at no extra
charge.

However if you had done your 4 bus rides and then caught the tube from
Zone 2 to Zone 1 in off peak times the cap would rise to 4.40. If your
tube trip was between 07.00 and 19.00 then the Oyster fare would be 2
taking your running total to 5. However this would automatically be
capped to 4.40 as only 1.40 would be deducted from your card balance.

If you had made tube journeys prior to 09.30 in the morning then your
cap would be set at the higher rate for the Peak One Day Travelcard less
50p which is 5.70 (for Z12 ticket).

It is very important to note that if you travel from Z1 to beyond Z2
then the cap rises to the appropriate value for Z14 or Z16 tickets
depending on what zone you exit the tube or DLR in.

As someone else has additionally pointed out Oyster is clever enough to
compare your running total both with the appropriate cap price but also
with a lower cap (for fewer zones) and the cost of the latest journey
deducted where this may be lower than the cap for a One Day Travelcard
less 50p.

...what happens if I use my Oyster prepay before 9:30, does this cap
still apply? Sounds like an loop hole for using a travel card before
9:30?


See above.

Does anyone know how much a zones 1-6 travel card costs these days?


One Day Peak Travelcard 12.40
One Day Peak Travelcard 6.30
7 Day 41.00
Monthly 157.70
Annual 1640.00

Lots more info at

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...er/general.asp
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2006.pdf

HTH

--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!
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Old July 31st 06, 06:12 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Can I use Oyster pre pay before 9:30?

wrote:

Just been reading the rules about Oyster pre pay and it says that there
is a price cap equal to (or less than ) the cost of a travel card. I
thought travel cards could only be used after 9:30?


There are now two types of Day Travelcards; a peak version, for use
before 0930 on weekdays; or the traditional off-peak version, for use
after 0930 on weekdays or all day weekends or public holidays.
(Incidentally both are valid for journeys that start before 0430 the
following day as well.)

Daily price capping on Oyster is similar to - but not the same as - a
Day Travelcard. The principle difference is that Oyster Pre-Pay (or Pay
As You Go) cannot be used on most of the National Rail network in
London. At the moment (2006 prices) the Oyster Pre-Pay daily price cap
will always be 50p cheaper than it's 'equivalent' Day Travelcard.

...what happens if I use my Oyster prepay before 9:30, does this cap
still apply? Sounds like an loop hole for using a travel card before
9:30?


If you use Oyster Pre-Pay before 0930 you'll be charged the appropriate
Tube or bus fare. Any journeys you do before 0930 will not contribute
towards an off-peak cap, but they will contribute towards a peak cap.

Depending upon what journeys you make and when the following situations
can apply:

(1) You don't get capped at all, as you don't make enough journeys and
hence don't pay enough to reach any of the capping levels.

(2) You pay for your pre-0930 morning journey then make enough journeys
after 0930 to qualify for the off-peak cap - only those off-peak
journeys would contribute towards the off-peak cap.

(3) You make several journeys before 0930 along with some afterwards,
in which case you'll qualify for the peak cap. This is unlikely unless
you're travelling around a lot in the morning.

(4) You get capped for making several bus journeys in one day at 3,
plus you pay on top of that for a one or two Tube journeys. This is
only really likely if you make one Tube journey.

The information above does contradict that elsewhere on this thread - I
can assure you that the above is correct.


Does anyone know how much a zones 1-6 travel card costs these days?


6.30 off-peak, 12.40 peak. All the information is on the tickets
section of the TfL website, see below for more info.


I buy a yearly season ticket, but as I often work from home etc Ive
figured out that it would be cheaper to pay daily if a daily ticket
costs less that 10.


It's quite possible, yes. Perhaps if you could indicate how often you
travel, how you travel (Underground/bus/overground train) and between
which zones you travel then we'd have an idea of what would be
appropriate for you.

Oyster Pre-Pay would be far less helpful if you travel on National Rail
(NR), as it can't currently be used on most routes. For those who do
use NR, the Peak Day Travelcard is one option if travelling before 0930
on weekdays. Another option to consider is buying a single NR ticket in
the morning peak, then buying an off-peak Day Travelcard for use after
0930. For those travelling regularly then a season Travelcard (weekly
or longer) is likely to be the best value - and even in situations
where it's a toss up, then the season Travelcard has the advantage that
you've bought it already whilst buying single tickets every day is a
hassle.


TfL ticket information:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...06/index.shtml

Tube/DLR fares (both Oyster and cash):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick.../tubedlr.shtml

Daily price caps (when travelling on Tube/DLR)
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...ubedlr-4.shtml

Daily price cap for bus/tram journeys:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...strams-4.shtml


The whole TfL Fares and Tickets 2006 leaflet can be downloaded as a PDF
he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/fares-tick...fares-2006.pdf

For detailed information on daily price capping see page 19.

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Old August 1st 06, 01:01 PM posted to uk.transport.london
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Default Can I use Oyster pre pay before 9:30?

Oh dear! Its complicated isnt it!

I think its become a mute point as I commute between Orpington (zone 6)
and Victoria (zone 1) and I dont think Orpington can take prepay
(although it does have Oyster readers?)

I currently pay 1083 for an annual season ticket, but figured out
that last year I only used the ticket on 135 days and so it cost me 8
per day.

Was just wondering if an annual season ticket was still the cheapest
way?


Thanks

David Bevan
http://www.davidbevan.co.uk



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