"Mizter T" typed


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Michael Hoffman typed


I think maybe Mizter T means people *inside* the bus not requesting the
stop? Everywhere I have traveled by bus in Germany it has been necessary
to press a button to signal a stop.

I suspect he means both.

I know my partner has missed buses through failing to hail them, and
sailed through Harrow-on-the-Hill when he wanted to change buses there,
when he didn't ring the bell.


Rather than leave you all guessing as to what I meant I'll tell you!

I had in mind people at request bus stops who fail to hail the bus, and
just expect the driver to know via the power of psychic suggestion that
he should stop and let them on. Perhaps they're used to the bus
stopping to let people off, but occasionally there are no alighting
passengers so those at the bus stop will find their psychic powers have
stopped working.

I find the opposite situation, that of no-one on board the bus ringing
the bell, is a less common occurrence - and I remain amused that on the
approach to a major compulsory stop, one where the bus is absolutely
bound to stop (a major interchange for example), there is nonetheless
often a chorus of dings on the bell as if there was some danger the
driver would forget.

Like Helen's partner I've nonetheless managed to both fail to hail and
forget to ding and missed my bus/stop on a good few number of occasions!

Wouldn't you call Harrow Bus Station a major compulsory stop[1]? This is
where my partner didn't ring and overshot. It's hardly surprising others
may ring neurotically.

[1]Underground, National Rail and bus interchange.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"Mizter T" typed


As a counter-point to that it means that those on the bus are not left
dawdling around. It's purely subjective but my memory of bus journeys
of old was that they weren't as snappy as nowadays. Yes, this has a
number of downsides, but I quite like the sense of urgency that now
seems to pervade bus operations in London, because ultimately I want to
get from A to B.

This is no fun for standing passengers, especially if old or infirm.

If changes of bus are involved then it may well be that there are
several routes serving a particular corridor that a passenger could
use. Also, of course, there are often more buses on each route
nowadays, and I think a frequent service on bus routes where big gaps
between buses are avoided as much as possible really does inspire
confidence in the bus network. There's nothing worse than waiting at a
stop for ages. I'd suggest factoring in these considerations when
weighing up such matters.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

"MIG" typed

It's a kind of passenger protest some of the time. "I don't care how
annoying it is to you to have a chorus of rings at every stop. Perhaps
if you generally stopped at bus stops you'd have a quieter ride."

Good point, well put.

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
"Mizter T" typed


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Michael Hoffman typed


I think maybe Mizter T means people *inside* the bus not
requesting the stop? Everywhere I have traveled by bus in
Germany it has been necessary to press a button to signal a stop.

I suspect he means both.

I know my partner has missed buses through failing to hail them,
and sailed through Harrow-on-the-Hill when he wanted to change
buses there, when he didn't ring the bell.


Rather than leave you all guessing as to what I meant I'll tell
you!

I had in mind people at request bus stops who fail to hail the
bus, and just expect the driver to know via the power of psychic
suggestion that
he should stop and let them on. Perhaps they're used to the bus
stopping to let people off, but occasionally there are no alighting
passengers so those at the bus stop will find their psychic powers
have stopped working.

I find the opposite situation, that of no-one on board the bus
ringing
the bell, is a less common occurrence - and I remain amused that
on the approach to a major compulsory stop, one where the bus is
absolutely
bound to stop (a major interchange for example), there is
nonetheless
often a chorus of dings on the bell as if there was some danger
the
driver would forget.

Like Helen's partner I've nonetheless managed to both fail to hail
and forget to ding and missed my bus/stop on a good few number of
occasions!

Wouldn't you call Harrow Bus Station a major compulsory stop[1]?
This is where my partner didn't ring and overshot. It's hardly
surprising others
may ring neurotically.

[1]Underground, National Rail and bus interchange.

I thought that the compulsory/request distinction referred only to
people waiting at the stop, and that passengers on the bus were expected
to ring the bell for any stop.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

Richard J. wrote:
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
"Mizter T" typed


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Michael Hoffman typed


I think maybe Mizter T means people *inside* the bus not
requesting the stop? Everywhere I have traveled by bus in
Germany it has been necessary to press a button to signal a stop.

I suspect he means both.

I know my partner has missed buses through failing to hail them,
and sailed through Harrow-on-the-Hill when he wanted to change
buses there, when he didn't ring the bell.


Rather than leave you all guessing as to what I meant I'll tell
you!

I had in mind people at request bus stops who fail to hail the
bus, and just expect the driver to know via the power of psychic
suggestion that
he should stop and let them on. Perhaps they're used to the bus
stopping to let people off, but occasionally there are no alighting
passengers so those at the bus stop will find their psychic powers
have stopped working.

I find the opposite situation, that of no-one on board the bus
ringing
the bell, is a less common occurrence - and I remain amused that
on the approach to a major compulsory stop, one where the bus is
absolutely
bound to stop (a major interchange for example), there is
nonetheless
often a chorus of dings on the bell as if there was some danger
the
driver would forget.

Like Helen's partner I've nonetheless managed to both fail to hail
and forget to ding and missed my bus/stop on a good few number of
occasions!

Wouldn't you call Harrow Bus Station a major compulsory stop[1]?
This is where my partner didn't ring and overshot. It's hardly
surprising others
may ring neurotically.

[1]Underground, National Rail and bus interchange.

I thought that the compulsory/request distinction referred only to
people waiting at the stop, and that passengers on the bus were expected
to ring the bell for any stop.



I never understood it that way for all the decades when the distinction
applied, although the rule was kind of handed now rather than found in
writing. However, now I can't find anything about request and
compulsory stops on the TfL site at all, so I've sent a question. I'll
continue scratching around in my stuff though.

MIG wrote:
Richard J. wrote:
Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:
"Mizter T" typed


Helen Deborah Vecht wrote:

Michael Hoffman typed


I think maybe Mizter T means people *inside* the bus not
requesting the stop? Everywhere I have traveled by bus in
Germany it has been necessary to press a button to signal a stop.

I suspect he means both.

I know my partner has missed buses through failing to hail them,
and sailed through Harrow-on-the-Hill when he wanted to change
buses there, when he didn't ring the bell.


Rather than leave you all guessing as to what I meant I'll tell
you!

I had in mind people at request bus stops who fail to hail the
bus, and just expect the driver to know via the power of psychic
suggestion that
he should stop and let them on. Perhaps they're used to the bus
stopping to let people off, but occasionally there are no alighting
passengers so those at the bus stop will find their psychic powers
have stopped working.

I find the opposite situation, that of no-one on board the bus
ringing
the bell, is a less common occurrence - and I remain amused that
on the approach to a major compulsory stop, one where the bus is
absolutely
bound to stop (a major interchange for example), there is
nonetheless
often a chorus of dings on the bell as if there was some danger
the
driver would forget.

Like Helen's partner I've nonetheless managed to both fail to hail
and forget to ding and missed my bus/stop on a good few number of
occasions!

Wouldn't you call Harrow Bus Station a major compulsory stop[1]?
This is where my partner didn't ring and overshot. It's hardly
surprising others
may ring neurotically.

[1]Underground, National Rail and bus interchange.

I thought that the compulsory/request distinction referred only to
people waiting at the stop, and that passengers on the bus were expected
to ring the bell for any stop.



I never understood it that way for all the decades when the distinction
applied, although the rule was kind of handed now rather than found in
writing. However, now I can't find anything about request and
compulsory stops on the TfL site at all, so I've sent a question. I'll
continue scratching around in my stuff though.



And almost immediately I find a bus map from 1981 with pictures of the
two types of stop and explanations as follows.

(White backgroud, red ring, black bar) "This is a 'compulsory' bus stop
where every bus on the route concerned will stop without being hailed.
At busy times it is quicker (and fairer) to form a queue."

(Red background, white ring and bar) "This is a 'request' bus stop
where the bus will only stop if you signal it to do so by waving your
arm or by ringing the bell once if you are already a passenger."

I always thought it was odd when my mother said "wave" but actually
she, and everyone else, simply stuck their arm out. That's not waving
really, is it?

Richard J. wrote:

(snip)

I thought that the compulsory/request distinction referred only to
people waiting at the stop, and that passengers on the bus were expected
to ring the bell for any stop.

I demur. I was always under the impression that a compulsory stop meant
that technically speaking the bus should always stop, so theoretically
there's no need for passengers on board to ring the bell.

Also drivers often seem/seemed to adopt the practice of slowing down
for a compulsory stop, and if no passenger on board looks/looked like
they are/were going to get off (i.e. no one near the door or standing
up) and there is/was no-one at the bus stop then the driver will/would
just continue without stopping (the choices in tense for that past
paragraph reserves judgement to the reader as to whether such a
practice continues today! - I'd say the practice still happens some of
the time).

MIG wrote:

MIG wrote:

(snip)
I never understood it that way for all the decades when the distinction
applied, although the rule was kind of handed now rather than found in
writing. However, now I can't find anything about request and
compulsory stops on the TfL site at all, so I've sent a question. I'll
continue scratching around in my stuff though.


And almost immediately I find a bus map from 1981 with pictures of the
two types of stop and explanations as follows.

(White backgroud, red ring, black bar) "This is a 'compulsory' bus stop
where every bus on the route concerned will stop without being hailed.
At busy times it is quicker (and fairer) to form a queue."

(Red background, white ring and bar) "This is a 'request' bus stop
where the bus will only stop if you signal it to do so by waving your
arm or by ringing the bell once if you are already a passenger."

I always thought it was odd when my mother said "wave" but actually
she, and everyone else, simply stuck their arm out. That's not waving
really, is it?


I remember such information being commonplace. However the only
contemporary mention I can find is in the notes accompanying the five
area bus maps (Central, NE, NW, SE & SW) and it only relates to night
buses. There is a picture of a red-backgrounded request stop
accompanying this text:

"All bus stops are treated as request stops between 0100 and 0430.
Additionally N-prefix night bus routes stop by request only at all
times. Please clearly signal to the driver when you wish to get on or
off the bus."

You can also find mention of when the system was introduced in 1935 in
this Designed for London education pack from the Transport Museum (page
30 [1]):

~~~~~
1935
'Fixed stop' system for buses introduced
First LT programme of compulsory and request bus stops started"
~~~~~

I'm not an expert on bus stops but I do know they're a surprisingly
late innovation - the above suggests as late as 1935, in London at
least. I don't know if someone else can flesh out the history of this a
bit.

Back to the present, I guess there is some argument for rolling out the
night bus rules to all buses - i.e. all stops are request stops. Given
that current TfL literature doesn't mention the two types of stops
(apart from with regards to night buses) perhaps things are just slowly
evolving that way anyway. Though I, like the others here, would of
course be interested to know what London Buses' policy or thinking
about this issue is, if any.


----------
[1] !Large PDF file!
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/downloads/pdf/TfL_educationpack.pdf

I've only witnessed this lack of courtesy at Finchley Road once, so perhaps
that was a one-off. And I don't use this interchange much. But I use the
Mile End one every day and it's getting increasingly on my goat.



BEFORE ANYONE LEAPS DOWN MY THROAT AND TALKS ABOUT HAVING TO STICK TO
TIMETABLES ETC - I just wanted to say that IN THE PAST they waited, they
don't now (or they're less likely to do so now). That's all.

Sorry for being so indistinct. Probably didn't make a lot of sense there.
:-))
I can tell you why the Met and Jubilee no longer wait at Wembley Park,
the system of lights does not work, so the Met don't know that the
Jubillee train is there and vice versa, the system still works at
Finchley Road though.

Also this is a voluntary system, if we're running late we don't have too
wait.

In message . 145,
Tristán White writes

I must say though that the courtesy between DLR trains at Poplar
(people going from Canary Wharf to Beckton and changing at Poplar) is
still alive and well and trains indeed wait. But no such courtesy
between District and Central any more.

That's because the system is drive by computer and the train is
generally held until the connecting one arrives. Nothing really to do
with being polite.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)