On Feb 27, 10:02 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
I'm pretty convinced that once orbital rail improvements start to
materialise that there will be a surge in demand that is currently
suppressed by relatively poor service levels and / or concerns about
station facilities and security. I've slightly lost track as to what
improvements are due when - as TfL and Network Rail have different views
as to what is needed - but I think TfL will be exercising its option for
new trains and asking for signal and platform enhancements within 18-24
months of Overground starting this November.

Hopefully Willesden Junction High Level is done first - nearly all of
the existing stations EXCEPT THIS ONE can handle six-car trains (or
maybe they can handle 2x313, which may be shorter than 2x375).

As for line enhancements, restoring full four-tracking in all places
where it used to exist and constructing new stations at radial route
interchanges (i.e. for the Piccadilly, Northern and Central lines)
should definitely be considered.

Does anyone have a line diagram, or maybe even one showing where it
used to be quad-tracked?

On Feb 27, 2:47 pm, "TheOneKEA" wrote:
On Feb 27, 10:02 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm pretty convinced that once orbital rail improvements start to
materialise that there will be a surge in demand that is currently
suppressed by relatively poor service levels and / or concerns about
station facilities and security. I've slightly lost track as to what
improvements are due when - as TfL and Network Rail have different views
as to what is needed - but I think TfL will be exercising its option for
new trains and asking for signal and platform enhancements within 18-24
months of Overground starting this November.

Hopefully Willesden Junction High Level is done first - nearly all of
the existing stations EXCEPT THIS ONE can handle six-car trains (or
maybe they can handle 2x313, which may be shorter than 2x375).

As for line enhancements, restoring full four-tracking in all places
where it used to exist and constructing new stations at radial route
interchanges (i.e. for the Piccadilly, Northern and Central lines)
should definitely be considered.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...31880267713b01

Much of the freight traffic on the North London Line does not even
need to be in London. I am convinced that the UK needs a freight arc
from Felixstowe to Southampton. This could be constructed using, in
part, the track beds of the DN&S and LNWR Oxford to Cambridge routes.

This is not something I actually expect to happen! But such a route
could keep a substantial portion of the NL Line's freight load away
from London.

The North London Line needs to function much like TfL's mass transit
lines.


Adrian

In message , Graham J
writes
I used the North London Line to get from Highbury and Islington the last
two days there were enough people to fill 8 carriages, but only 3 on the
train.

It must be common, because there was no hesitancy getting on board,
everyone runs and crams into every available inch of space.

Is this cattle truck scenario the norm ??

Drifting off from the original subject. I am always amused when I hear the
whining and complaining at East Croydon about supposedly crowded trains in
the morning peaks. Yes they can be extremely crowded but they are as
nothing compared to those I used to encounter in the peaks from Edmonton
Green. They'd have been regarded as half empty there :-)

Similarly I used to complain about crowding from Palmers Green to
Moorgate...... luxury.

This morning I managed to get about 2 inches of space up against the
door all the way from Highbury & Islington to Brondesbury on the NLL.

I have to say that a lot of the problem seems to school kids filling the
thing up. I can remember when everyone went to the local school, and
walked there. In fact I can't remember using a bus or train once in all
my school days.

--
Edward Cowling London UK

Graham J wrote:

Drifting off from the original subject. I am always amused when I hear the
whining and complaining at East Croydon about supposedly crowded trains in
the morning peaks. Yes they can be extremely crowded but they are as
nothing compared to those I used to encounter in the peaks from Edmonton
Green. They'd have been regarded as half empty there :-)

Commuting from Edmonton Green is somewhat more bearable now there are 6
trains an hour during the peak (though it annoys the good folk of
Southbury, Turkey Street and Theobalds Grove no end that their
semi-fasts, which are all of five minutes quicker than the stoppers, now
stop everywhere!) between Edmonton Green and Liverpool Street.

Angel Road, however, now only gets a handful of trains in the
peaks...and those go to Stratford. Can you say, "Closure by stealth"?

Madness when you consider that Angel Road is virtually opposite Ikea and
Tesco Extra! (Though the access to the station is now from a road
overbridge a short distance off the *country* end of the platforms,
rather than the London end, thanks to the widening of the A406).

Cheers,

Barry

On Feb 27, 10:47 pm, "TheOneKEA" wrote:
Hopefully Willesden Junction High Level is done first - nearly all of
the existing stations EXCEPT THIS ONE can handle six-car trains (or
maybe they can handle 2x313, which may be shorter than 2x375).

Not "nearly all" by any stretch of the imagination. According to ye
Quail (*** for too short for 2x313):

Richmond P3-5: 6; P6-7: 7 (through platforms are 8 if anyone wants to
send the NLL to Kingston!)
Kew Gdns 6 Up (to Camden Rd), 8 Dn
Gunnersbury 7 Up, 6 Dn
*** S Acton 4
*** Acton Cen 4
*** Willy J 3 Up, 4 Dn
*** Kensal Rise 3
*** Brondesbury Pk 3
*** Brondesbury 3
*** W Hampstead 3
*** Finchley Rd & Frognal 3
*** Hampstead Heath 3
*** Gospel Oak 5 Up, 3 Dn
*** Kentish Tn W 3
*** Camden Rd 5 (directions change)
Caledonian Rd & Barnsbury 6
Highbury & Islington 6
Canonbury 6
*** Dalston Kingsland 3
Hackney Cen 6
*** Homerton 3
Hackney Wick 6
*** Stratford LL 5 (but P10A: 10; P11-12: 8)

Hope this shows the scale of the platform lengthening job.

James.

Mizter T wrote:
The NLL has seemingly turned from a forgotten backwater of London's
rail system to become a very popular orbital link, but it's now almost
too popular for it's own good.

I put much of its popularity down to lack of proper 'revenue
protection'. When teams of grippers are in action those packed NLL
carriages can empty rather rapidly with people abandoning the train ASAP
or flitting between carriages. The forthcoming station developments,
gates et al, may help clamp down on this and so the three car trains
could prove sufficient for a while longer.

ESB

"Adrian" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 27, 2:47 pm, "TheOneKEA" wrote:
On Feb 27, 10:02 pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

I'm pretty convinced that once orbital rail improvements start to
materialise that there will be a surge in demand that is currently
suppressed by relatively poor service levels and / or concerns about
station facilities and security. I've slightly lost track as to what
improvements are due when - as TfL and Network Rail have different
views
as to what is needed - but I think TfL will be exercising its option
for
new trains and asking for signal and platform enhancements within 18-24
months of Overground starting this November.

Hopefully Willesden Junction High Level is done first - nearly all of
the existing stations EXCEPT THIS ONE can handle six-car trains (or
maybe they can handle 2x313, which may be shorter than 2x375).

As for line enhancements, restoring full four-tracking in all places
where it used to exist and constructing new stations at radial route
interchanges (i.e. for the Piccadilly, Northern and Central lines)
should definitely be considered.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.tr...31880267713b01

Much of the freight traffic on the North London Line does not even
need to be in London. I am convinced that the UK needs a freight arc
from Felixstowe to Southampton. This could be constructed using, in
part, the track beds of the DN&S and LNWR Oxford to Cambridge routes.

This is not something I actually expect to happen! But such a route
could keep a substantial portion of the NL Line's freight load away
from London.

The North London Line needs to function much like TfL's mass transit
lines.


Adrian

The 'freight arc' doesn't need to reach directly from Southampton to
Felixstowe, but simply to allow access from either port to WCML and ECML.
WCML from S'oton is already available via Reading West Curve, though a
flyover here would be useful to avoid conflicts. I don't believe there is
more than one train per day from S'oton to the ECML, and this traffic could
easily pass via Birmingham/Derby.
Felixstowe to the WCML/North could be served by gauge enhancements to the
routes from the Haven Ports to Peterborough via Ely, and thence via
Leicester/Nuneaton. There is other, non-container,traffic from West London
to East London/East Anglia, but this could travel via the Tottenham and
Hampstead, I believe.
Brian

On 27 Feb 2007 13:56:41 -0800, Mizter T wrote:

The new trains should also be more tube-like, and in the end the
service should look something like this:
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/img/pr...il-phase-1.png
http://www.alwaystouchout.com/img/pr...il-phase-2.png

You rightly point out that the new Electrostar trains will be of a
more suitable design, which will of course help, but they won't cure
the problem. More capacity is needed.

I should of course have consulted the alwaystouchout page I referred
to in my first post and taken a proper look at those maps before
posting, so thanks for providing the direct link. I'm not quite sure
how the 8tph between Willesden Junction and Stratford will get fitted
in with all the freight, but that is indeed the plan - though not
until 2010 at the earliest.

It seems to be more of an aspiration than a plan. Network Rail pour
cold water on it in their Cross-London Route Utilisation Strategy:

"Beyond 2014:
It has not been possible to identify infrastructure deliverable within
the scope and timeframe of this RUS that would accommodate TfL's
ultimate aspiration of four trains per hour on each of a number of
overlapping routes as well as existing freight traffic."

Briefly, the recommendations of the RUS a

-extend NLL and WLL platforms and services to 4 car
-cut existing Southern WLL service back to Croydon and add 1tph
Shepherds Bush - Croydon
-extend existing 2tph Silverlink WLL services along the Goblin to
Barking (using Class 170 units reconfigured to Class 376 standard)
-add 2tph Stratford to Queen's Park
-signalling improvements to improve headways on the NLL and Goblin
-4-tracking Camden to Dalston (formerly 4-track but currently 3-track)
-provision of through platforms on the Goblin at Gospel Oak
-NLL power supply upgrade
-freight loop at Camden Road

In message .com
"Adrian" wrote:

[snip]

Much of the freight traffic on the North London Line does not even need to
be in London. I am convinced that the UK needs a freight arc from
Felixstowe to Southampton. This could be constructed using, in part, the
track beds of the DN&S and LNWR Oxford to Cambridge routes.


What would be the logic of a freight connection between Southampton and
Felixstowe? I would have thought that there would be little or no traffic
actually between those points. Both are major container ports with traffic
to and from the major manufacturing centres of Britain. Those connections
could certainly do with upgrading. The two ports are too close together by
sea for there to be any advantage in unloading containers at one port,
railing them across country and reembarking them at the other.

--
Graeme Wall
This address is not read, substitute trains for rail.
Transport Miscellany at http://www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail/index.html