"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:19:58 -0800, Mizter T
wrote:

Of course there would still be the tricky issue of which route the
Oyster system presumed you had taken, regardless of what actual route
you did in fact take.

Richmond-Stratford, anyone?


The system works on idea that the passenger takes the quickest and most
direct route, so for Oyster usage R-S should be done via District Line and
Central Line, changing at Mile End and taking 43 minutes (max 57) according
to Planner times.

The TfL Journey Planner tells you to take SWT to Waterloo, W&C to Bank and
then Central Line in 57 minutes.
Doing it by the Overground, which is the simplest route, takes 1hr3min.

I think the TfL Journey Planner needs an overhaul to suggest more sensible
routes and not base it entirely on departure times.

I suspect that if any journey takes more than 2 hours you get charged with
the maximum fare. I went Richmond to North Woolwich (and then back to
Epping)when that stretch closed down, spent 20 minutes at NW taking pictures
and got stuck with the max possible fare because the Oyster system timed me
out. It might have been an invalid route at the time but I did touch in and
out at the correct places.
It also does this when the Tube breaks down for long periods, as happened to
me earlier this year, but thankfully that one got capped at the Daily
Travelcard rate because the breakdown was after 9.30am.

Nick



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Nick Pedley" wrote in message
.. .

I think the TfL Journey Planner needs an overhaul to suggest more sensible
routes and not base it entirely on departure times.

I suspect that if any journey takes more than 2 hours you get charged with
the maximum fare.

Definitely - this has been discussed often and confirmed. You actually get
charged twice the maximum cash fare if a journey exceeds the 2 hour limit,
because you end up with both an unresolved entry = £4.00, and an unresolved
exit = £4.00.

Paul S

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:24:31 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Definitely - this has been discussed often and confirmed. You actually get
charged twice the maximum cash fare if a journey exceeds the 2 hour limit,
because you end up with both an unresolved entry = £4.00, and an unresolved
exit = £4.00.

Which is a nonsense, as there are journeys that can take that long. 3
or 4 hours would be more sensible.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

Neil Williams wrote in article
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:24:31 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Definitely - this has been discussed often and confirmed. You
actually get
charged twice the maximum cash fare if a journey exceeds the 2 hour
limit,
because you end up with both an unresolved entry = £4.00, and an
unresolved
exit = £4.00.

Which is a nonsense, as there are journeys that can take that long.
3
or 4 hours would be more sensible.

Have you examples ?

It might be better to start with the out-of-station interchange
problem.

That is, you leave the system at an OoS intending to end your journey,
when you start another journey later but still within 2 hours of your
initial entry the Oyster system considers it a resumed journey but you
very soon hit the 2 hour timeout and are charged excessively
accordingly.

I suggest that in these circumstances, since you touched in properly,
the system should recalculate for two journeys.

And for a long journey, if you touched in/ validated anywhere during
the 2 hours then either the 2 hours should be extended from the last
touch in or the same recalculation for 2 journeys should occur.

--
Mike D

On 18 Nov 2007 18:44:09 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:

Have you examples ?

The all-too-frequent delays, for one, especially if you are travelling
from the extremes of one line to the extremes of another.

It won't trip most people up, but it shouldn't trip *anyone* up.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.

"Michael R N Dolbear" wrote in message
news:01c829fd$8ba88140$LocalHost@default...

Neil Williams wrote in article
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:24:31 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Definitely - this has been discussed often and confirmed. You
actually get
charged twice the maximum cash fare if a journey exceeds the 2 hour
limit,
because you end up with both an unresolved entry = £4.00, and an
unresolved
exit = £4.00.

Which is a nonsense, as there are journeys that can take that long.
3
or 4 hours would be more sensible.

Have you examples ?


There were many examples last time this was discussed, basically relying on
journeys such as Chesham - 'either eastern extremity'. Someone touching in
at Chesham just after a train has left for instance, [and why shouldn't
they], would run down a fair chunk of the 2 hours before they even got
moving...

The TfL planner shows an average for the next 4 journeys to Epping for
example of about 2 hours 20 min, with departures half hourly.

Paul

On 18 Nov 2007 18:44:09 GMT, "Michael R N Dolbear"
wrote:


Neil Williams wrote in article
...
On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:24:31 -0000, "Paul Scott"
wrote:

Definitely - this has been discussed often and confirmed. You
actually get
charged twice the maximum cash fare if a journey exceeds the 2 hour
limit,
because you end up with both an unresolved entry = £4.00, and an
unresolved
exit = £4.00.

Which is a nonsense, as there are journeys that can take that long.
3
or 4 hours would be more sensible.

Have you examples ?

It might be better to start with the out-of-station interchange
problem.

That is, you leave the system at an OoS intending to end your journey,
when you start another journey later but still within 2 hours of your
initial entry the Oyster system considers it a resumed journey but you
very soon hit the 2 hour timeout and are charged excessively
accordingly.

There are time limits for interchange between "sides" of an out of
station interchange. These are separate from anything to do with the 2
hour maximum journey time. If you exceed the OSI time then your second
journey will count as a new journey and the 2 hour limit restarts. There
may be people who exit at OSIs and who go about their business and then
enter at the other "side" of the OSI and unexpectedly do so within the
time limit and then effectively restart their first trip. I would
suggest the instances of the latter are small.

And before you ask no I don't know what the current OSI time limit is
for Oyster PAYG.

I suggest that in these circumstances, since you touched in properly,
the system should recalculate for two journeys.

And for a long journey, if you touched in/ validated anywhere during
the 2 hours then either the 2 hours should be extended from the last
touch in or the same recalculation for 2 journeys should occur.

I think we need to be careful here. What is not yet clear is quite what
universal PAYG acceptance on NR routes as well as LU, DLR and Overground
will look like.

My own view based on no inside knowledge is that there will be three
rates for PAYG. These will be the TfL scale as people currently
understand it and that will apply to LU, DLR and Overground. There will
then be a NR only PAYG rate which may or may not be the same prices as
the current NR zonal fares within Greater London and finally there will
be a PAYG version of the tube / train tariff that will charge for people
using NR to an interchange point with DLR, LU and Overground. The key
question is whether there will be any discount for PAYG holders relative
to the cash prices for NR zonal and tube / train tickets. This is all my
own musing and hence completely speculative but I can't see that the
TOCs could possibly contemplate charging the TfL PAYG values without a
commitment from TfL / DfT to pay increased subsidies. If there wasn't
to be a "shadow" PAYG rate I don't see why everyone went to so much
trouble creating zonal fares and charging at the last fares revision.

What rules will apply to journey times I don't know but I would venture
to suggest that a 2 maximum would not and could not apply in the case of
a tube / train journey or possibly some trips by Thameslink within the
zonal area. I also think TfL will need to fine tune the current 2 hour
time limit given that the scope of journeys has expanded with Overground
and the limited frequencies on some lines could cause people to easily
exceed 2 hours.
--
Paul C


Admits to working for London Underground!

In article ,
(Nick Pedley) wrote:

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:19:58 -0800, Mizter T
wrote:

Of course there would still be the tricky issue of which route the
Oyster system presumed you had taken, regardless of what actual route
you did in fact take.

Richmond-Stratford, anyone?

The system works on idea that the passenger takes the quickest and
most direct route, so for Oyster usage R-S should be done via
District Line and Central Line, changing at Mile End and taking 43
minutes (max 57) according to Planner times.

The TfL Journey Planner tells you to take SWT to Waterloo, W&C to
Bank and then Central Line in 57 minutes.
Doing it by the Overground, which is the simplest route, takes
1hr3min.

I think the TfL Journey Planner needs an overhaul to suggest more
sensible routes and not base it entirely on departure times.

I suspect that if any journey takes more than 2 hours you get
charged with the maximum fare. I went Richmond to North Woolwich
(and then back to Epping)when that stretch closed down, spent 20
minutes at NW taking pictures and got stuck with the max possible
fare because the Oyster system timed me out. It might have been an
invalid route at the time but I did touch in and out at the correct
places.
It also does this when the Tube breaks down for long periods, as
happened to me earlier this year, but thankfully that one got
capped at the Daily Travelcard rate because the breakdown was after
9.30am.

You don't mention the SWT to Waterloo and Jubilee combination, though the
TfL journey planner does. It's also under 57 minutes there for some
journeys with a generous 12 minutes allowed for the interchange at
Waterloo. The running times total 42 minutes. 19 minutes to Waterloo is
hard to beat by Underground.

--
Colin Rosenstiel