When I started working (part time) in London in 2001 an off-peak Day
Travelcard from Cambridge cost just 60p more (with Network Card discount)
than a cheap day return to London Terminals. I guess the difference
without railcard discount was 90p.

That differential has risen steadily. In 2007 the undiscounted cheap day
return and off-peak Day Travelcard fares are £18 and £22.50 respectively,
a difference now of £4.50, five times as much as 6 years ago. For
railcard users the difference now is £3.30, five and half times as much
as 60p!

From January, FCC tell me, the CDR remains at £18 while the off-peak Day
Travelcard increases to £24, widening the difference to £6, or £3.95 with
railcard discount. Meanwhile the Peak Travelcard goes up from £34.50 to
£36, the same increase in cash but a £1 less of a margin because the SDR
goes up from £28 to £29.

I went on a day trip to Putney yesterday with my wife and baby
granddaughter. We bought off-peak Day Travelcards although I (but not my
wife) have an Oyster card. this was because it seemed worth it for the
convenience despite likely costing me 30p more. In the end I realised at
King's Cross that the District line was suspended South of Putney Bridge
so we went via Vauxhall and SWT and needed the OPDTs anyway. But next
year that 30p will become £1.45 so a rather more expensive luxury for the
convenience.

So who sets these TfL add-on margins? I ask because the CDR/OPDT margin
from January will force most day trippers to use Oyster instead if they
don't want to be fleeced.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
When I started working (part time) in London in 2001 an off-peak Day
Travelcard from Cambridge cost just 60p more (with Network Card discount)
than a cheap day return to London Terminals. I guess the difference
without railcard discount was 90p.

That differential has risen steadily. In 2007 the undiscounted cheap day
return and off-peak Day Travelcard fares are £18 and £22.50 respectively,
a difference now of £4.50, five times as much as 6 years ago. For
railcard users the difference now is £3.30, five and half times as much
as 60p!

From January, FCC tell me, the CDR remains at £18 while the off-peak Day
Travelcard increases to £24, widening the difference to £6, or £3.95 with
railcard discount. Meanwhile the Peak Travelcard goes up from £34.50 to
£36, the same increase in cash but a £1 less of a margin because the SDR
goes up from £28 to £29.


I bet its an even bigger ripoff if you check the price of a CDR to the first
station within Zone 6, and add an all zones travelcard bought from that
station.

Obviously the tocs are hoping you think they're doing you a favour, but the
fare shouldn't really be CDR to Lon terminals+all zones travelcard,
otherwise you are paying twice for part of your initial journey.

This sort of thing should be on London Travelwatch's agenda surely?

Paul S

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
When I started working (part time) in London in 2001 an off-peak Day
Travelcard from Cambridge cost just 60p more (with Network Card
discount) than a cheap day return to London Terminals. I guess the
difference without railcard discount was 90p.

That differential has risen steadily. In 2007 the undiscounted cheap
day return and off-peak Day Travelcard fares are £18 and £22.50
respectively, a difference now of £4.50, five times as much as 6
years ago. For railcard users the difference now is £3.30, five and
half times as much as 60p!

From January, FCC tell me, the CDR remains at £18 while the off-peak
Day Travelcard increases to £24, widening the difference to £6, or
£3.95 with railcard discount. Meanwhile the Peak Travelcard goes up
from £34.50 to £36, the same increase in cash but a £1 less of a
margin because the SDR goes up from £28 to £29.

I bet its an even bigger ripoff if you check the price of a CDR to
the first station within Zone 6, and add an all zones travelcard
bought from that station.

Indeed. A Day Travelcard to Hadley Wood is £23, more than one to London,
with the same validity in effect.

Obviously the tocs are hoping you think they're doing you a favour,
but the fare shouldn't really be CDR to Lon terminals+all zones
travelcard, otherwise you are paying twice for part of your initial
journey.

This sort of thing should be on London Travelwatch's agenda surely?

I'm trying to find out whose decision it really is, so I know if it's a
matter for them or Passenger Focus.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
When I started working (part time) in London in 2001 an off-peak Day
Travelcard from Cambridge cost just 60p more (with Network Card
discount) than a cheap day return to London Terminals. I guess the
difference without railcard discount was 90p.

That differential has risen steadily. In 2007 the undiscounted cheap
day return and off-peak Day Travelcard fares are £18 and £22.50
respectively, a difference now of £4.50, five times as much as 6
years ago. For railcard users the difference now is £3.30, five and
half times as much as 60p!

From January, FCC tell me, the CDR remains at £18 while the off-peak
Day Travelcard increases to £24, widening the difference to £6, or
£3.95 with railcard discount. Meanwhile the Peak Travelcard goes up
from £34.50 to £36, the same increase in cash but a £1 less of a
margin because the SDR goes up from £28 to £29.

I bet its an even bigger ripoff if you check the price of a CDR to
the first station within Zone 6, and add an all zones travelcard
bought from that station.

Indeed. A Day Travelcard to Hadley Wood is £23, more than one to London,
with the same validity in effect.

I'm misunderstanding this terminology.

What's a Day Travelcard to Hadley Wood? Surely a Day Travelcard always goes
to "All Zones".

tim

In article ,
(tim \(not at home\)) wrote:

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

Indeed. A Day Travelcard to Hadley Wood is £23, more than one to
London, with the same validity in effect.

I'm misunderstanding this terminology.

What's a Day Travelcard to Hadley Wood? Surely a Day Travelcard
always goes to "All Zones".

That's puzzling me too. I got the information from the nationalrail web
site.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Colin Rosenstiel wrote

When I started working (part time) in London in 2001 an off-peak Day
Travelcard from Cambridge cost just 60p more (with Network Card
discount)
than a cheap day return to London Terminals. I guess the difference
without railcard discount was 90p.

That differential has risen steadily. In 2007 the undiscounted cheap
day
return and off-peak Day Travelcard fares are £18 and £22.50
respectively,
a difference now of £4.50, five times as much as 6 years ago. For
railcard users the difference now is £3.30, five and half times as
much
as 60p!

From January, FCC tell me, the CDR remains at £18 while the off-peak
Day
Travelcard increases to £24, widening the difference to £6, or £3.95
with
railcard discount. Meanwhile the Peak Travelcard goes up from £34.50
to
£36, the same increase in cash but a £1 less of a margin because the
SDR
goes up from £28 to £29.

Notice that also from Jan '08 NR Railcard (Disabled Persons, HM Forces,
Senior and Young Persons) discount will be available on Oyster capping
off-peak

Journeys in Peak Off-Peak Off-Peak (R)
Zones 1-2 £6.30 £4.80 £3.10

So, except for those with a Network Railcard or who want to use NR or
leave zones 1-2 while in London the TC add ons are not worth it and
Cambridge travelers should use Oyster PAYG.

I'm an Surrey SWT user and the CDR/ODTC difference has always been
(until the cash tube fare increase) more than two zone 1 cash tube
fares and thus could never have been as little as 90p in 2001. It seems
Cambridge started very cheap and ended up more than SWT.

The difference (from Walton-on-Thames) is currently £3.50 (after
11:30), £4.00 (after 09:30) and £5.70 (before 09:30).

--
Mike D

In article 01c84041$c3ab6260$LocalHost@default, (Michael
R N Dolbear) wrote:

I'm an Surrey SWT user and the CDR/ODTC difference has always been
(until the cash tube fare increase) more than two zone 1 cash tube
fares and thus could never have been as little as 90p in 2001. It
seems Cambridge started very cheap and ended up more than SWT.

The difference (from Walton-on-Thames) is currently £3.50 (after
11:30), £4.00 (after 09:30) and £5.70 (before 09:30).

Yes, I thought the NSE Day Travelcard (originally Capitalcard) scheme was
to add two zone 1 tube fares, so have never understood the Cambridge
rates.

Can you get these fares from the nationalrail web site? From Cambridge I
can't, presumably because it only offers the discounted 'one'-only
travelcard instead.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

"Colin Rosenstiel" wrote in message
...
In article 01c84041$c3ab6260$LocalHost@default, (Michael
R N Dolbear) wrote:

I'm an Surrey SWT user and the CDR/ODTC difference has always been
(until the cash tube fare increase) more than two zone 1 cash tube
fares and thus could never have been as little as 90p in 2001. It
seems Cambridge started very cheap and ended up more than SWT.

The difference (from Walton-on-Thames) is currently £3.50 (after
11:30), £4.00 (after 09:30) and £5.70 (before 09:30).

Yes, I thought the NSE Day Travelcard (originally Capitalcard) scheme was
to add two zone 1 tube fares, so have never understood the Cambridge
rates.

Can you get these fares from the nationalrail web site? From Cambridge I
can't, presumably because it only offers the discounted 'one'-only
travelcard instead.


The NR OJP should show the fares [although it won't sell them] - you might
be right about 'one' defaulting to their own offerings, but I was expecting
a CDR the to first station (Hadley Wood in your case) + separate travelcard
to be cheaper than the London Terminals travelcard.

Paul S

Colin Rosenstiel wrote
(Michael R N Dolbear) wrote:

I'm an Surrey SWT user and the CDR/ODTC difference has always been
(until the cash tube fare increase) more than two zone 1 cash tube
fares and thus could never have been as little as 90p in 2001. It
seems Cambridge started very cheap and ended up more than SWT.

The difference (from Walton-on-Thames) is currently £3.50 (after
11:30), £4.00 (after 09:30) and £5.70 (before 09:30).

Yes, I thought the NSE Day Travelcard (originally Capitalcard) scheme
was
to add two zone 1 tube fares, so have never understood the Cambridge
rates.

As I noted it was always more than two zone 1 tube fares so the SWT
stations offered both; an add on to anywhere in zone 1 or a ODTC. Now
of course the choice is only worth offering with a peak ticket.

Can you get these fares from the nationalrail web site? From
Cambridge I
can't, presumably because it only offers the discounted 'one'-only
travelcard instead.

Certainly the Peak and CDR could be seen on National Rail, but
initially when SWT brought in the 'shoulder' fare increase (after 9:30
and before about 11:30) in May the 'super off peak' fare wasn't shown.
Don't know if it's been enhanced since.

It seems it hasn't ( tried a return day trip Walton-on-Thames to
Hadley Wood which couldn't offer a fare after 11:30 but did offer a
ODTC option before then).

Also a silly message
==Please be aware, you may need to buy separate tickets for this
journey, as a through ticket may not be available. If you don't want to
travel via this route, click 'Restart journey' at the bottom of the
page and try again.==

http://www.thetrainline.com did it right

Super off peak ODTC £10.00 (sop CDR £6.50)
(point to point) CDR £10.70
Off peak ODTC £11.60 (CDR 7.60)
peak TC £16.10 (SDR £10.40)


--
Mike D

In article ,
(Paul Scott) wrote:

The NR OJP should show the fares [although it won't sell them] -
you might be right about 'one' defaulting to their own offerings,
but I was expecting a CDR the to first station (Hadley Wood in your
case) + separate travelcard to be cheaper than the London Terminals
travelcard.

Why should the OJP only offer the 'one' travelcard especially when it's
mainly offering trains to King's Cross on which it correctly shows it as
not valid?

Your Hadley Wood option seems to be much more expensive, as well as being
impractical as no trains from Cambridge stop there.

--
Colin Rosenstiel